Taegeuk vs Palgwe Poomsae

[JP3]

If a 20 y/o kicked an unprotected 13 y/o in the head/face with force sufficient to knock the head back in my old TKD classes.... that 20 y/o would then be sparring me and I would make a point to... illustrate... why that is not "the thihng to do."

But, people's opinions on what is "good training" differ.

 

[TrueJim]

That appears to be a problem with your classmates and/or your instructor not teaching students to control themselves rather than sparring itself...

Agreed. At our school, they are quick to point out that sparring practice is not a tournament. Football teams don't tackle during practice for a reason.

 

[JP3]

Did anyone else have the term "attitude adjustment" in their TKD school? Where the, or an, instructor.... or even a preferred advanced student, would take someone aside for a "sparring" match so as to curbe abusive behavior?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Did anyone else have the term "attitude adjustment" in their TKD school? Where the, or an, instructor.... or even a preferred advanced student, would take someone aside for a "sparring" match so as to curbe abusive behavior?

No. That's BS. If the student can't be taught without beating them up, then they're either unteachable and need to go away, or you're a rubbish teacher and need to go away.
Hard sparring is one thing. But intentionally setting someone up against a much better partner for the sole purpose of delivering a beating is utter nonsense.
You don't curb abusive behavior by engaging in abuse behavior.

 

[JP3]

No. That's BS. If the student can't be taught without beating them up, then they're either unteachable and need to go away, or you're a rubbish teacher and need to go away.
Hard sparring is one thing. But intentionally setting someone up against a much better partner for the sole purpose of delivering a beating is utter nonsense.
You don't curb abusive behavior by engaging in abuse behavior.

Your perspective is noted, however I have been in schools, plural intended, where it worked exactly as intended. Bullying ended.

You seem to perceive it as abusive behavior when in fact it is teaching, showing, not just describing, the person the originally-abused person's point of view.

Why would the 20 y/o intentionally blast a 13 y/o in the face? Obviously there is an issue with a self-esteem thing, or a bullying nature, or a misperception of the goal of the training... there is something. You "could" spend months trying to talk your way through it, trying to figure it out, and perhaps lose not one, but multiple students. Or, it can be personally illuminated in the moment, and learning happens.

 

[Metal]

Regarding the Palgwe Poomsae:

I didn't learn 'em all yet, but love 'em and think they're definitely preparing people and a nice base for the Yudanja Poomsae.

Nevertheless I think that Kukkiwon schools should teach the Taegeuk Poomsae first - since they're the forms of the current Kukkiwon curriculum and are the base for Poomsae competition.

I'm still busy with the Taegeuk Yugeupja and the 9 Yudanja Poomsae, but I think I'll add some of the Palgwae Poomsae to my personal training after the summer.

Regarding the sparring discussion:

Respect to all coaches who manage to tame down and/or change people who don't hold
back, control their kicks and respect their 'inferior' training partners. Actually finding the right way for the right person is what makes a great teacher. Some hotshots deserve and need to have their asses kicked, while others may need to have some sense talked into them.

 

[mastervincegonzales]

At my dojang, we practiced Palgwe Poomsae as well as the ITF Poomsae (Chon-Ji, Dangun, Etc.) We have avoided Taeguk Poomsae for the better part of 28 years, but have started to integrate them and will begin to teach them to all of our students since it has become the WTF Competition standard. I prefer the original Plagwe and ITF Poomsae though for the foundation that they develop and the fact that Taeguk stances appear weaker and are less aesthetically pleasing.

 

[JP3]

At my dojang, we practiced Palgwe Poomsae as well as the ITF Poomsae (Chon-Ji, Dangun, Etc.) We have avoided Taeguk Poomsae for the better part of 28 years, but have started to integrate them and will begin to teach them to all of our students since it has become the WTF Competition standard. I prefer the original Plagwe and ITF Poomsae though for the foundation that they develop and the fact that Taeguk stances appear weaker and are less aesthetically pleasing.

Welcome to Martial Talk, Master Vince. Glad to have you!

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Why would the 20 y/o intentionally blast a 13 y/o in the face? Obviously there is an issue with a self-esteem thing, or a bullying nature, or a misperception of the goal of the training... there is something.

I didn't see the kick, since there were 2 sparring sessions at the same time and I was watching the other one. I only saw the 13 year old put his hand on his face and the red swollen result. I think it was a "misperception of the goal" as you say. I am not sure how much of a "blast" it was, but enough for some redness and swelling. No mention was made at the time to the 3rd dan, so I talked to the 4th dan after class. I'll start another thread to discuss further.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I didn't see the kick, since there were 2 sparring sessions at the same time and I was watching the other one. I only saw the 13 year old put his hand on his face and the red swollen result. I think it was a "misperception of the goal" as you say. I am not sure how much of a "blast" it was, but enough for some redness and swelling. No mention was made at the time to the 3rd dan, so I talked to the 4th dan after class. I'll start another thread to discuss further.

Isn't the face a legitimate target for sparring in your school? If so, that doesn't sound like an unacceptable kick.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Isn't the face a legitimate target for sparring in your school? If so, that doesn't sound like an unacceptable kick.

Good question. Rules aside, I was focussed more on the skill and strength difference.

WIth that said, rules in local WTF competition never allow head kicks for colour belts and black belts over 30 or 40. As an example, in the tournament this weekend, head kicks are only allowed for "high performance" black belts 12-30 years old. So colour belts, and "recreational" black belts don't have head kicks.

Our school says no head contact for colour belts, and head contact for black belts. But of course I'm not going to kick the 65 year old lady in our class just because it's allowed. If I am sparring, I might try to tap another black belt though, if we have head gear. The key is whether I trust the other person. If not, a tap might be returned with a whallop (e.g, fast spinning hook kick) and it's not worth it to me.