Palgwe Boon Hae / Bunkai

[DMcHenry]

For the last couple of moves of Pyung-ahn Samdan, I like to think of those as a neck break.

Starting from the last punch, you grab the attacker around the neck and spin around for a throw. While they are falling one way around you, reverse the twist on their neck the other direction....

 

[puunui]

This is where writing is inadequate for me! I was taught that last movement is a throw which I can show you perfectly well but damned if I can explain it!
I like doing the Wado version of this kata Pinan Sandan but dislike the TSD version Pyung Sam Dan.

What is the difference between the two versions? By the way, GM LEE Won Kuk had some interesting comments about the founder of Wado Ryu.

 

[puunui]

From my research and personal discussions over the years, I'm inclined to believe that Okinawan karate was never taught in a highly systemic way from the top down, where concepts are explained and then example problems are worked.

My best teachers were all over the place. Some tried to stick to a curriculum, but most taught mainly by feel. The best teachers for me were the ones where you could never predict what would be taught in class that day.

 

[dancingalone]

By the way, GM LEE Won Kuk had some interesting comments about the founder of Wado Ryu.

You can't leave us hanging after that! Please, do tell.

 

[dancingalone]

My best teachers were all over the place. Some tried to stick to a curriculum, but most taught mainly by feel. The best teachers for me were the ones where you could never predict what would be taught in class that day.

My teacher almost always taught by technique with very little verbal interaction. He might correctly you bodily with his hands. After assimilating a dozen or so of these 'samples', you're supposed to put it together yourself and derive the principle or at the very least a reasonable tactical understanding within the body if not the mind. As I understand it, his approach is actually the norm for people of his generation and background.

I would like to change this to an extent for the audience I have. I think westerners benefit from a lecture format of concepts followed by concrete examples demonstrated and then practiced. At some point I would also like to add an enrichment component to my classes through video lectures and expositions. Again, a very western approach to the age-old learning process.

 

[puunui]

You can't leave us hanging after that! Please, do tell.

GM Lee said that Wado Ryu's Otsuka Sensei betrayed FUNAKOSHI Gichin Sensei, and in that regard, he compared him to GM SON Duk Sung who he said was his Otsuka Sensei. It came up when we were discussing why GM Lee removed GM Son as Chung Do Kwan Jang and replaced him with GM UHM Woon Kyu. He said that GM Son was never his first choice to replace him, that his senior student was GM YOO Woong Jun, who ended up going to North Korea. It was only after GM Yoo left that GM Lee agreed to make GM Son the next Chung Do Kwan Jang. Everyone wanted GM Uhm to replaced GM Yoo, but GM Uhm (23) was considered too young at the time, so they went with GM Son (30).

 

[puunui]

I would like to change this to an extent for the audience I have. I think westerners benefit from a lecture format of concepts followed by concrete examples demonstrated and then practiced. At some point I would also like to add an enrichment component to my classes through video lectures and expositions. Again, a very western approach to the age-old learning process.

Then that will be your contribution, similar to mine, wherein we explain it as clearly as possible so that westerners can understand, in the hopes that we can keep it going for at least one more generation.

 

[Tez3]

GM Lee said that Wado Ryu's Otsuka Sensei betrayed FUNAKOSHI Gichin Sensei, and in that regard, he compared him to GM SON Duk Sung who he said was his Otsuka Sensei. It came up when we were discussing why GM Lee removed GM Son as Chung Do Kwan Jang and replaced him with GM UHM Woon Kyu. He said that GM Son was never his first choice to replace him, that his senior student was GM YOO Woong Jun, who ended up going to North Korea. It was only after GM Yoo left that GM Lee agreed to make GM Son the next Chung Do Kwan Jang. Everyone wanted GM Uhm to replaced GM Yoo, but GM Uhm (23) was considered too young at the time, so they went with GM Son (30).

And?

 

[dancingalone]

GM Lee said that Wado Ryu's Otsuka Sensei betrayed FUNAKOSHI Gichin Sensei...

Otsuka was already a jujutsu man of some renown before he studied with Funakoshi. It would have likely been difficult for him to drop all his preconceptions in training totally given that, even if you discount totally the Japanese/Okinawan dynamic too.

 

[Tez3]

Otsuka was already a jujutsu man of some renown before he studied with Funakoshi. It would have likely been difficult for him to drop all his preconceptions in training totally given that, even if you discount totally the Japanese/Okinawan dynamic too.

Chaps, we are getting off topic here, can we get back to the OP please and not gossip. We don't need the mods looking at yet another TKD thread.

 

[tigycho]

I would ad "Bubishi" as a source.

Do you mean "The Bible of Karate Bubishi" by Patrick McCarthy?

 

[tigycho]

Do you mean "The Bible of Karate Bubishi" by Patrick McCarthy?

Or, did you mean: "Bubishi: The Classic Manual of Combat", translated by Patrick McCarthy?

 

[dancingalone]

Bubishi: The Classic Manual of Combat is the newer edition, but they really contain the same content IMO. I suppose you should get the newer translation since it has newer notes and some changes from Pat McCarthy.

 

[tigycho]

<note to self during research>
Our school does Kibon Hyung (Kicho Ilbo) as well as the Palgwes.

Kibon Hyung appears to be identical to Taikyoku Shodan.

 

[Tez3]

<note to self during research>
Our school does Kibon Hyung (Kicho Ilbo) as well as the Palgwes.

Kibon Hyung appears to be identical to Taikyoku Shodan.

Also the Pinan katas but they seem to me to be a very much watered down version of the Shotokan and Wado katas. Less stances, less techniques and 'bits' changed just to make them seem different.

 

[tigycho]

Found this from KyleJustKyle in this thread: http://tkdspace.com/forum/posts/id_767/

Palgwe 1: Bog standard, for the purposes of this thread nothing interesting going on here.
Palgwe 2: See above.
Palgwe 3: See above.
Palgwe 4: We have four instances of the Heian Nidan opening movement, except the last technique in the sequence is knife hand instead of hammerfist. Moving up the I and back there are two slightly more stylized instances of the Heian Sandan/Kanku Dai dumb knife hand anti-grab technique, where you give opponent your back just to get rid of a wrist grab on your spear hand.
Palgwe 5: More standard techniques. At the top of the I are two instances of the Heian Yondan/Kanku Dai fist stack into simultaneous back/hammerfist side kick, landing in a rear arm elbow. There's also something that resembles the reinforced inside to outside midlevel radius block from a couple of Heian forms, but I wasn't explicitly taught it as a reinforced block.
Palgwe 6: The sequence from high palm block/knife hand to front kick to X-stance backfist is lifted off Heian Yondan, which got it off Kanku Dai. Slightly after there are two instances of spreading double block into kick into two punches, which are Heian Yondan, Jion, and Jiin.
Palgwe 7: The high X block is suggestive. Everything from the low X block to high open palm X block to hand flower to punch to one foot pivot/lower block to extended palm to crescent kick to elbow is lifted off Heian Godan. After the little bunny hop back that lower/side block posture is out of Heian Godan too, as well as a few other Shotokan kata.
Palgwe 8: The opening three moves, repeated on the other side, are the right side opening movements of Heian Shodan. Then moving up the I there's the give your back to opponent spear hand grab defense from Heian Sandan/Kanku Dai, but slightly closer to the source material here. At the top of the I there's two instances of the back/hammerfist side kick landing in elbow from Heian Yondan/Kanku Dai. The two movements at the end are the closing movements of Heian Sandan as ewll.