What are peoples' thoughts on groups of students training to synchronize their forms/kata? In my school there is emphasis (especially in the upper ranks) on the groups working towards perfectly timing their forms. There isn't precise direction on the pace of that timing, just that the group should be synchronized. We do find in the lower ranks and among some of the less skills students, that they generally do forms very fast (losing precision in the process) - so there is some value in having stronger students 'set the pace'. I ask because so much of MA training is very personal and individual focused, yet we see this emphasis on (almost militaristic) synchronization of a group - what is the value in this?
Synchronized Forms/Kata
- Thread starter Bonhomme
- Start date
This is common practice in school that are heavily invested in competition. It's good for forms competition. It's also good for keeping students from running into each other if they're at different places in the form. It's pretty much irrelevant for fighting or sparring.
skribs
Grandmaster
Its good for demonstrations, which most TKD forms basically are. It looks better if everyone is in sync. I like to think of forms as a song, and songs work a lot better when the group is on the same rhythm.
One thing we did in our demo team is make sure that everyone doing a technique is doing it the same way. For example, if someone can do a 180 side kick, but the others can only do a head-height side kick, then everyone does the head-height side kick. Otherwise one stands out and the rest look inferior. (We would then find a different way to fit the 180 side kick into the demonstration).
It's also useful for instructors to be able to check everyone on the same technique at the same time, or to pause the form and correct the stance or execution of the technique for the class as a whole.
One thing we did in our demo team is make sure that everyone doing a technique is doing it the same way. For example, if someone can do a 180 side kick, but the others can only do a head-height side kick, then everyone does the head-height side kick. Otherwise one stands out and the rest look inferior. (We would then find a different way to fit the 180 side kick into the demonstration).
It's also useful for instructors to be able to check everyone on the same technique at the same time, or to pause the form and correct the stance or execution of the technique for the class as a whole.
isshinryuronin
Senior Master
This has value as others have noted: demos, teaching, preventing collisions. However, this should not be taken as the norm once the student gets into an intermediate stage. Some forms have their own built-in rhythm, some don't. Regardless, each student must have the opportunity to express the form in a way that's natural for them.
Black belts should be experimenting with different cadences and timings in putting combos together. This is important not only for the student to develop and express their individuality and move in a way that's natural for them, but changing the timing and groupings of combos can lead to discovering new applications.
Synchronization has its time and place to be sure, mostly as a convenience in class (for the student and teacher) or for theatrical demos. But this has little value in the realization of the form's purpose, potential, or the student's natural flow.
Black belts should be experimenting with different cadences and timings in putting combos together. This is important not only for the student to develop and express their individuality and move in a way that's natural for them, but changing the timing and groupings of combos can lead to discovering new applications.
Synchronization has its time and place to be sure, mostly as a convenience in class (for the student and teacher) or for theatrical demos. But this has little value in the realization of the form's purpose, potential, or the student's natural flow.
If you pay too much attention on performance, self-cultivation, inner peace, culture study, ..., you will pay less attention on combat.
skribs
Grandmaster
I also wonder if this mattered more when there were battle lines in melee combat. For example, synchronization of the Spartan Phalanx formation.
Good points! I should also add that my school teaches Ed Parker Kenpo, so there is an emphasis on self defense (and tayloring), also we don't compete - so that's why I was wondering what the value was.
No doubt - I always think of the scene near the in Best of the Best where all the Koreans are in sync.
isshinryuronin
Senior Master
The phalanx was a very strong formation due to its cohesive nature and required synchronization of all the soldiers when marching so they acted as a single body, no individuality allowed. Alexander the Great used it to great effect. A phalanx was brigade or regiment sized. The downside was that it was slow in maneuvers and adapting to changing conditions. It was also weak and unwieldly when marching over uneven or broken ground as its cohesiveness/synchronization was destroyed.
The Roman maniple was a smaller more maneuverable unit capable of quick changes of direction and replaced the phalanx in ancient warfare. It was comparable to a battalion or company in modern times.
This only has value if you are looking to compete in a competition or if you are looking to but on a good group presentation. The assumption is that the results of the school can be reproduced.
My guess is that it has military roots and speaks volumes in terms of the group and not the individual.
A well synchronized group moves better than a chaotic disorderly one. In addition, a group that moves well together tends to have amplified courage and amplified intimidation. In a world of swords spears and shields that ability to have everyone in synch is critical.
My school would have been the worst for that. Nothing we did was ever in synch. lol. In terms of practice we always looked like a hot mess and we always had students focus on their individualism and not to worry about the progress or lack of progress by other students.
For me and the way that I teach. None, of that would benefit, students. It would be in constant conflict with my teaching style. I would have to change my teaching style for something like that to benefit people I teach.
The value of synchronization will vary depending on the image that the school is trying to present. When I taught everything was "Move at your own pace." "Focus on yourself."
People who are able to synch look better than those who don't. That's always a plus.
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It's a thing. I mean, one can decide that a training form is doing every move standing on one leg, and that would be as legit as anything else.
Once katas are disconnected from their meaning, anything goes really. It's a bit like reciting mathematical theorems by memory, because one likes the sound of it, and then you make a competition on who recites them "better" for whatever sense of better you want.
This is the down side of it. Synchronization doesn't mean that everyone is performing at their best. It just means that everyone is performing at a speed that the group can manage. Alot of synchronized stuff seems to move at the same speed regardless of the activity being done. It would probably have more value in the ancient military when you have to hold the line. You don't want to help the enemy by making a mistake by slashing or stabbing your fellow soldier by accident.
When you hear the command to run to the front line, it's better to have the whole crew get to the front line around the same time than to trickle in. But for non military fighting the Synchronization isn't going to be a big help. People need to find their own rhythm for that type of activity.
If you are faster than me, when you and I perform together, you have to slow down to meet my speed. For you, this is a very bad training idea.
