Sucker punched

[Kittan Bachika]

Talking to a friend last night and they told me this messed up story about a couple she is friends with that happened to them recently.

The couple is walking downtown As they are walking four guys are behind her yelling about her rear end. So the girl turns around and yells at them for being disrespectful. What happens next is the the guys walk next to them and continue harassing the couple.

The girl asks would they talk to their sister like that? They guys say that they have no sisters, the boyfriend jumps in and says would you talk to your mother like that? One of the guys takes offense jumps in his face asking what did you say about my mama? The couple walks away

As they are walking away one of the guys says their momma don't dress like the girl. The girl was wearing shorts. Girl yells at him again that you still should not act like that towards people. They keep walking away. One of the guy says something dirty about having money and wanting to buy her. I won't give you the details since it is pretty perverse but you get the idea.

She responds by walking up to him and spitting in his face. She turns her back and walks away and gets sucker punched in the head. The guys split, the couple go to into a store, she is crying and they end up calling the cops to take a report.


I told my friend that the girl actually attacked him first by spitting on him. She said that to her friend but her friend said that she did not care because it was justified because she was being harassed by these guys.

She asked me what I thought and I told her honestly, that as soon as they saw what was going on, they should have gotten as far away from these guys as possible and call the cops. These were four young jerks filled with testosterone and were looking to start some trouble. These are the type of idiots that go to bars not to drink but to get into a bar fight. They should have never even said anything back to their comments because it would have not done any good anyway. Also the moment she spit on the guy, she committed assault. In face she could have been arrested.

It is absolutely horrible what happened to this girl. Street harassment is a huge problem for women. And something has to be done which includes stronger laws and awareness.

I told her if it is any consolation I have seen guys like those four jerks and what usually happens is that they end up dead or crippled because they picked the wrong person to mess with. Or they end up in jail. Sometimes there a few of them who figure out that they need to fly right or they will end up in dead or in jail.

That's why as soon as they pop up and try to start trouble, the best thing to do is to leave.

 

[K-man]

Boy! There is a lesson to be learned from that story. Without knowing all the facts it is hard to understand to total scenario, but what jumps out are the opportunities to disengage that where ignored, the interaction that guaranteed the continuation of the harassment and the spitting which actually provided the catalyst for physical confrontation. Then you had the male companion. What was his role? He ignored the initial interaction but was he communicating with his partner? Would she have said what she said if he wasn't there? Would she have even been where she was if he wasn't there? Did she understand that by spitting she was possibly going to precipitate a fight involving her partner with greatly uneven odds? Would she have done that if he wasn't there?

You could run a total self defence class on that one scenario.
:asian:

 

[Kittan Bachika]

That's all I got from her on how it went down.

Preaching to the choir. I don't know what the boyfriend was doing except the part when he asked about one of the guys about his momma. But like I said at the first sign of trouble, they should have gotten as far away from those jerks as possible.

 

[jks9199]

They walked onto a Status Seeking Show, and treated it like an individual Monkey Dance. Unfortunately -- the locals couldn't lose face to outsiders...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[Dirty Dog]

Words alone never justify a physical response, and so I agree with you that the first assault was hers. And a body fluid assault is often considered a more serious assault than punching someone.
It's possible they could have handled this situation worse, but it would have required a lot of effort to do so.

 

[ballen0351]

She's lucky she only got punched. You don't spit on people ever.

 

[K-man]

She's lucky she only got punched. You don't spit on people ever.

At least unless you are spoiling for a fight. I was at a Patrick McCarthy seminar when he demonstrated a little sequence that started with a spit to the eyes. Not a bad way of entering if that is what you are determined to do.
:asian:

 

[Dirty Dog]

At least unless you are spoiling for a fight. I was at a Patrick McCarthy seminar when he demonstrated a little sequence that started with a spit to the eyes. Not a bad way of entering if that is what you are determined to do.
:asian:

Keep the legal ramifications in mind... in Colorado, punching someone is a misdemeanor, unless you cause serious bodily injury (broken bones, disfiguring scars, etc). Body fluid assaults are felonies.

 

[tshadowchaser]

well what can I really say except she should have shut her mouth and kept going after the original incident. Had she not spit she might not have got punch. Hell I would have been tempted to punch her if she spit on me.
This is a good example of things getting out of hand because people just do not know when to move on and not keep escalating a problem

 

[MJS]

Talking to a friend last night and they told me this messed up story about a couple she is friends with that happened to them recently.

The couple is walking downtown As they are walking four guys are behind her yelling about her rear end. So the girl turns around and yells at them for being disrespectful. What happens next is the the guys walk next to them and continue harassing the couple.

The girl asks would they talk to their sister like that? They guys say that they have no sisters, the boyfriend jumps in and says would you talk to your mother like that? One of the guys takes offense jumps in his face asking what did you say about my mama? The couple walks away

As they are walking away one of the guys says their momma don't dress like the girl. The girl was wearing shorts. Girl yells at him again that you still should not act like that towards people. They keep walking away. One of the guy says something dirty about having money and wanting to buy her. I won't give you the details since it is pretty perverse but you get the idea.

She responds by walking up to him and spitting in his face. She turns her back and walks away and gets sucker punched in the head. The guys split, the couple go to into a store, she is crying and they end up calling the cops to take a report.


I told my friend that the girl actually attacked him first by spitting on him. She said that to her friend but her friend said that she did not care because it was justified because she was being harassed by these guys.

She asked me what I thought and I told her honestly, that as soon as they saw what was going on, they should have gotten as far away from these guys as possible and call the cops. These were four young jerks filled with testosterone and were looking to start some trouble. These are the type of idiots that go to bars not to drink but to get into a bar fight. They should have never even said anything back to their comments because it would have not done any good anyway. Also the moment she spit on the guy, she committed assault. In face she could have been arrested.

It is absolutely horrible what happened to this girl. Street harassment is a huge problem for women. And something has to be done which includes stronger laws and awareness.

I told her if it is any consolation I have seen guys like those four jerks and what usually happens is that they end up dead or crippled because they picked the wrong person to mess with. Or they end up in jail. Sometimes there a few of them who figure out that they need to fly right or they will end up in dead or in jail.

That's why as soon as they pop up and try to start trouble, the best thing to do is to leave.

As it's been said, the opportunity to remove yourself from the situation was there but your friend continued to involve herself. You were correct...she did attack him first, despite his verbal assault. however, those were only words. Ignore them, walk into a place of business to get away from them, call the cops...all viable options.

 

[Instructor]

Yes I agree, keep your cool, walk away without comment. Getting offended and spitting, bad move.

 

[K-man]

As it's been said, the opportunity to remove yourself from the situation was there but your friend continued to involve herself. You were correct...she did attack him first, despite his verbal assault. however, those were only words. Ignore them, walk into a place of business to get away from them, call the cops...all viable options.

Certainly it was harassment but I'm not sure you could call what happened first a verbal assault. Although technically a threat to physically harm is assault it depend on context. For example if someone is upset with you and obviously not going to physically engage, but is even threatening to kill you, it is most unlikely to stand up in court as justification for you to turn round and attack him.

For or it to be a verbal assault here, it would need to be a real threat to life or limb from close quarters.
:asian:

 

[MJS]

Certainly it was harassment but I'm not sure you could call what happened first a verbal assault. Although technically a threat to physically harm is assault it depend on context. For example if someone is upset with you and obviously not going to physically engage, but is even threatening to kill you, it is most unlikely to stand up in court as justification for you to turn round and attack him.

For or it to be a verbal assault here, it would need to be a real threat to life or limb from close quarters.
:asian:

Perhaps verbal abuse, would be a better choice of words.

 

[K-man]

Perhaps verbal abuse, would be a better choice of words.

Provocation also springs to mind. I don't know what has happened in the US but here the context of SD has significantly changed in the past 12 months or so because of efforts to combat these so called "sucker" punches. Here they are more called "king hits", but in the public mind there is very little difference between someone hitting me without provocation and me retaliating to an attack and knocking them down in an actual fight. If my attacker was to fall and hit his head, in the public mind I "king hit" him. As a result you need a really good reason to engage in fisticuffs and be very aware that there could be severe repercussions even if you are technically in the right.
:asian:

 

[Kittan Bachika]

Provocation also springs to mind. I don't know what has happened in the US but here the context of SD has significantly changed in the past 12 months or so because of efforts to combat these so called "sucker" punches. Here they are more called "king hits", but in the public mind there is very little difference between someone hitting me without provocation and me retaliating to an attack and knocking them down in an actual fight. If my attacker was to fall and hit his head, in the public mind I "king hit" him. As a result you need a really good reason to engage in fisticuffs and be very aware that there could be severe repercussions even if you are technically in the right.
:asian:

Just did a search on "king hits". Some serious stuff. Especially with rugby.
You are completely right about the repercussions even if you are in the right.

Recently I was on the bus and was getting ready to get off because my stop
was coming up, I feel a strong poke in my back. Nothing life threatening but annoying, I turn around
I asked the dude behind me if he needed something, he was surprised and he apologized. Then I walked off the train.
I don't know what he was doing and maybe he was trying to start something I don't know. Even if he wanted to start
a fight, it is not worth it.

So I found out that the girl who got sucker punched was very lucky. She's alright, even though she got hit in the side of the head and was knocked down. Apparently some people have told her she should done was get away from these guys, which we have all said but she said she was tired of this harassment and she felt nothing was going to change unless she took a stand against these guys.

 

[K-man]

So I found out that the girl who got sucker punched was very lucky. She's alright, even though she got hit in the side of the head and was knocked down. Apparently some people have told her she should done was get away from these guys, which we have all said but she said she was tired of this harassment and she felt nothing was going to change unless she took a stand against these guys.

I would label what we are talking about here as 'assertiveness' training and in its place it is fine. Here it has crossed the boundary into 'self defence' territory. If the girl was in a well lit public place with plenty of people and some security, or if she was walking with half a dozen big MA guys, what she did in standing up to the harassment would have been ok. Even then I might have expected the guys or security to stand up for her.

But outnumbered in the street, maybe even at night, with one male companion, SD training should prevail. Just get away and go home without pain or injury. This is a good illustration of the difference between 'self defence training' and training for a physical altercation. In this case the girl, in reacting in the way she did, actually precipitated the altercation.

Interesting study in human behaviour for sure.
:asian:

 

[Kittan Bachika]

I would label what we are talking about here as 'assertiveness' training and in its place it is fine. Here it has crossed the boundary into 'self defence' territory. If the girl was in a well lit public place with plenty of people and some security, or if she was walking with half a dozen big MA guys, what she did in standing up to the harassment would have been ok. Even then I might have expected the guys or security to stand up for her.

But outnumbered in the street, maybe even at night, with one male companion, SD training should prevail. Just get away and go home without pain or injury. This is a good illustration of the difference between 'self defence training' and training for a physical altercation. In this case the girl, in reacting in the way she did, actually precipitated the altercation.

Interesting study in human behaviour for sure.
:asian:

You hit it right on the head. If this took place in a restaurant, train station or a place where there were a lot of people which was well lit and she had people backing her up. And if she did not spit on that one guy it would have gone down differently. The messed up thing is that that happened during the day which is better than night but it does not make it less dangerous.

Sometimes people confuse self defense training and training for a physical altercation as the same thing It clearly is not.

 

[MJS]

Provocation also springs to mind. I don't know what has happened in the US but here the context of SD has significantly changed in the past 12 months or so because of efforts to combat these so called "sucker" punches. Here they are more called "king hits", but in the public mind there is very little difference between someone hitting me without provocation and me retaliating to an attack and knocking them down in an actual fight. If my attacker was to fall and hit his head, in the public mind I "king hit" him. As a result you need a really good reason to engage in fisticuffs and be very aware that there could be severe repercussions even if you are technically in the right.
:asian:

Yeah, the uneducated public is everywhere. LOL! I'm fairly certain the public in the US, would look at a pre-emptive strike as THAT person being the aggressor. They're not going to see the other guys hand cocking back, ready to launch towards my face, they're going to see me 'attacking' him. On the flip side, deep down, I really don't care if the guy I hit falls and busts his head. Screw him! That's what you get for trying to attack me. on the legal side...that'll probably be frowned upon. Then again, perhaps if I call for help, well, at least I'm trying to do something for the dirt bag.

 

[K-man]

Yeah, the uneducated public is everywhere. LOL! I'm fairly certain the public in the US, would look at a pre-emptive strike as THAT person being the aggressor. They're not going to see the other guys hand cocking back, ready to launch towards my face, they're going to see me 'attacking' him. On the flip side, deep down, I really don't care if the guy I hit falls and busts his head. Screw him! That's what you get for trying to attack me. on the legal side...that'll probably be frowned upon. Then again, perhaps if I call for help, well, at least I'm trying to do something for the dirt bag.

That's where I'm saying you need witnesses. Like you, I have no sympathy for someone who attacks me, but if you were alone against two attackers and no witnesses. You hit one, he falls, cracks his head and maybe dies. His partner, maybe female with previously good character testifies against you in court. Guess who could go to jail. This type of scenario is also part of SD training.
:asian: