Studying a new art and remembering the last one.

[Kittan Bachika]

Over the Labor Day weekend I was at a barbecue where I had a conversation with a friend of a friend.
He is a Shodan in Shotokan but now he trains in BJJand holds a brown belt.
Even he trains full time in BJJ, he still trains on his in Shotokan, doing Kihon and Kata at least twice a week. Even though he hasn't taken
a class in years he feels it is important to at least remember what he has learned.

For those of you who have left one art for another, have you forgotten your last art or do you practice
every now and then to remember it?

 

[seasoned]

Individual arts make a whole. But, I also feel that some arts contain all aspects of battle, but, that's for another thread. Pertaining to this thread, yes your friends friend should retain the first art while studying the new art. This is my opinion, and also depends on the motivation or their reasoning for the change...........

 

[tshadowchaser]

Having studied a few arts over the years I try to remember as much as I can about those arts I no longer go to class for. Mostly I remember as many of the forms as I can (my memory is not as good as it once was). Many of the forms where similar with a move here or there that was different depending on the style).
I think that these past styles have all combined to make me what I am today and have all been important in my development over the years.
Now I do not practice all the forms the same day or even the same week but I do practice them. Once in a while I will instruct a student in one of these forms from my past because it fits his needs or his body will work well with the form.
As for the self defense, well, that is another story because there have just been way to many over the years.

 

[lklawson]

Kinda depends on whether or not the first still has anything to offer which you think is valuable or important. Maybe you studied a weapon art previously and are now convinced that the weapons are incompatible with your life goals (maybe you study for self defense and think that a katana isn't a very good choice for SD or maybe you study for fun and think that the WWII CQC Knife you learned isn't artistic enough). Maybe you studied the prior art for SD and now think that it was a McDojo. Maybe you're firmly convinced that the prior art is vastly inferior in every way to what you are now studying or had some sort of dramatic tactical flaw.

If it's not useful to you and never will be again, why keep it?

Just the other side of the coin, ya know?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[rainesr]

I have studied Tang Soo Do, Kung Fu, and now Silat/Kunetao.

Rather than the forms, to me it was the footwork and body mechanics that were important. In each art there are very similar techniques or at least you start and end in similar positions, especially in the upper body, but the core body mechanics and footwork are a little different.

In TSD I may pass an attack then strike the neck and drop them over my leg because my stance makes that easy. In Silat we would get a little closer after passing the attack and twist their neck with the same strike and collapse them towards us. The actual movements are very very similar but my base would be very different leading to a different conclusion to the movements I guess. That concept is more important to me than the forms. I took the forms that I thought were the meat and potatoes from TSD and Kung Fu. Any new applications or techniques I learn in Silat/Kunetao that seem familiar I take back to my previous arts and see how they work and vice versa.

It is surprising how similar those three arts are.


~Rob

 

[Zenjael]

The first style I learned was Moo Duk Kwan, but it was alongside TSD, so when I began to learn chung do kwan tae kwon do. I received a 3rd dan in Moo Duk Kwan before switching to start over at CDK. At the time, I felt I could not learn the new style, if I practiced the old, and so swore off practicing Moo Duk Kwan until I had reached a first dan and teaching status, and it was of comparable ability, or better than my original style.

I went 3 years without doing a single technique from MDk, but I found that when I tried to do it again, it had never left me, and perhaps coincidentally, kept growing alongside me.

I have a standard I try not to deviate from; as a 3rd dan, my goal is that every technique I utilize, be perfect in all aspects. If it isn't, then I train, and train, and train it until it is of comparable skill with my other techniques.

Just keep in mind martial arts is tied to us all our life, even in the times when we don't practice. You can take off a belt, you can't stop being a martial artist, from what I've personally come to find. People seem to be in a hurry to perfect a move, when they learn it. Whenever I learn a new technique, I earnestly practice it- but I also look forward to when I'm 70 (if I can make it that far) and appreciate my abilities will have probably improved by then as well. You can do a repetition of ten roundhouses twice a week and over time improve, but you could also do 10 roundhouse once a day, everyday, and improve even faster. In that comparison, I'm assuming one is executing the technique correctly... otherwise as we all know you're just reinforcing bad technique. Likewise, if you execute a single technique, and use it just once a day, within a decade chances are quite good it will be a very skilled technique. It's all a question of how fast you want to learn that other style, and in addition to learn, how to incorporate it into one's natural fighting style. Just remember that speed can risk sloppiness.

It brings to mind Bruce Lee's addage, 'I do not fear the man who has used 10,000 kicks, I fear the man who has used one kick 10,000 times'. I'm patient enough to practice what I know I need to, when I feel like it, and on other days, work on other areas. It's all about patience, and if you try to rush cross-learning different styles, you'll begin to actually mix the styles up into something new, and probably ineffective.

It was always important to me, and will continue to always be, that if I use a technique, I know what it is for, against, why I used it, and why it was the best choice in that context, in addition to being able to explain how the mechanics of that technique operate, and what style it's from.

Shotokan, Tae Kwon Do, and Muai Thai all have something which could be, and often is considered a 'roundhouse, or roundkick'. When you can differentiate between each, and utilize, as well as teach, I'd venture to say one has effectively cross-styled without murkying up their own art.

You can do a repetition of a strike until it's engrained in your memory. I feel... that by doing say a repetition of 10 on whatever I believe needs work on, at least once a day, allows one's body to also grow and change with the art, so that it becomes more natural.

It's why I can block in the 5 different ways of tkd, at the best time possible. Just... don't make the mistake I did, which was to think an art is 'crap'. No martial art is, and if there are any crappy ones, then they aren't of the art in actuality.


But also don't make the mistake that every art is complete. Not every art is a right fit for everyone, and certain arts compliment each other. Moo Duk Kwan and Wing Chun, Muai Thai and Krav Maga are examples. And the combination to best compliment changes from person to person, because we're all different as the cliche goes.

 

[pgsmith]

For those of you who have left one art for another, have you forgotten your last art or do you practice
every now and then to remember it?

I still practice a couple of the arts that I've studied in the past, but I have totally forgotten a couple also. As Kirk said, it all depends on the individual, what arts they studied, and where they are going. Of course, that same statement can be made about almost anything in life.

 

[Chris Parker]

The first style I learned was Moo Duk Kwan, but it was alongside TSD, so when I began to learn chung do kwan tae kwon do. I received a 3rd dan in Moo Duk Kwan before switching to start over at CDK. At the time, I felt I could not learn the new style, if I practiced the old, and so swore off practicing Moo Duk Kwan until I had reached a first dan and teaching status, and it was of comparable ability, or better than my original style.

I went 3 years without doing a single technique from MDk, but I found that when I tried to do it again, it had never left me, and perhaps coincidentally, kept growing alongside me.

I have a standard I try not to deviate from; as a 3rd dan, my goal is that every technique I utilize, be perfect in all aspects. If it isn't, then I train, and train, and train it until it is of comparable skill with my other techniques.

Just keep in mind martial arts is tied to us all our life, even in the times when we don't practice. You can take off a belt, you can't stop being a martial artist, from what I've personally come to find. People seem to be in a hurry to perfect a move, when they learn it. Whenever I learn a new technique, I earnestly practice it- but I also look forward to when I'm 70 (if I can make it that far) and appreciate my abilities will have probably improved by then as well. You can do a repetition of ten roundhouses twice a week and over time improve, but you could also do 10 roundhouse once a day, everyday, and improve even faster. In that comparison, I'm assuming one is executing the technique correctly... otherwise as we all know you're just reinforcing bad technique. Likewise, if you execute a single technique, and use it just once a day, within a decade chances are quite good it will be a very skilled technique. It's all a question of how fast you want to learn that other style, and in addition to learn, how to incorporate it into one's natural fighting style. Just remember that speed can risk sloppiness.

It brings to mind Bruce Lee's addage, 'I do not fear the man who has used 10,000 kicks, I fear the man who has used one kick 10,000 times'. I'm patient enough to practice what I know I need to, when I feel like it, and on other days, work on other areas. It's all about patience, and if you try to rush cross-learning different styles, you'll begin to actually mix the styles up into something new, and probably ineffective.

It was always important to me, and will continue to always be, that if I use a technique, I know what it is for, against, why I used it, and why it was the best choice in that context, in addition to being able to explain how the mechanics of that technique operate, and what style it's from.

Shotokan, Tae Kwon Do, and Muai Thai all have something which could be, and often is considered a 'roundhouse, or roundkick'. When you can differentiate between each, and utilize, as well as teach, I'd venture to say one has effectively cross-styled without murkying up their own art.

You can do a repetition of a strike until it's engrained in your memory. I feel... that by doing say a repetition of 10 on whatever I believe needs work on, at least once a day, allows one's body to also grow and change with the art, so that it becomes more natural.

It's why I can block in the 5 different ways of tkd, at the best time possible. Just... don't make the mistake I did, which was to think an art is 'crap'. No martial art is, and if there are any crappy ones, then they aren't of the art in actuality.


But also don't make the mistake that every art is complete. Not every art is a right fit for everyone, and certain arts compliment each other. Moo Duk Kwan and Wing Chun, Muai Thai and Krav Maga are examples. And the combination to best compliment changes from person to person, because we're all different as the cliche goes.

Huh?

Let's look at this... you trained in Mu Duk Kwan, which is TKD. You say you were training that in conjunction with Tand Soo Do (should we mention that Mu Duk Kwan is Tang Soo Do, to the point where the full name is Mu Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do, or that Tang Soo Do is just the Korean pronunciation of "Karate"? No? Okay...), which is really just another form of the same art, then went to Chung Do Kwan, which is yet another form of TKD, and this is somehow you training in three different martial arts? Right...

As far as the rest of this mess, if you agree with Bruce in the idea of fearing someone who's trained one thing to an extreme, rather than an extreme number of things, what on earth are you doing claiming to know "the 5 different ways of TKD"? Your idea of knowing the different approaches to a roundhouse kick, then knowing which version to use at the "proper time" is frankly just you showing (again!) that you really don't have a clue about anything said here... And that's just the start of the problems with this post, really. If you want, I'm more than happy to dissect it to demonstrate your lack of understanding again, but only if you ask.

As regards the OP, as stated, it depends on why you change arts, really. I don't practice a lot of the arts I've trained in the past, mainly as I don't have any reason or need to. So while I haven't "forgotten" it, I also haven't remembered it in detail... as there isn't anything there to keep me wanting to.

 

[lklawson]

The first style I learned was Moo Duk Kwan, but it was alongside TSD, so when I began to learn chung do kwan tae kwon do. I received a 3rd dan in Moo Duk Kwan before switching to start over at CDK. At the time, I felt I could not learn the new style, if I practiced the old, and so swore off practicing Moo Duk Kwan until I had reached a first dan and teaching status, and it was of comparable ability, or better than my original style.

I went 3 years without doing a single technique from MDk, but I found that when I tried to do it again, it had never left me, and perhaps coincidentally, kept growing alongside me.

I have a standard I try not to deviate from; as a 3rd dan, my goal is that every technique I utilize, be perfect in all aspects. If it isn't, then I train, and train, and train it until it is of comparable skill with my other techniques.

Just keep in mind martial arts is tied to us all our life, even in the times when we don't practice. You can take off a belt, you can't stop being a martial artist, from what I've personally come to find. People seem to be in a hurry to perfect a move, when they learn it. Whenever I learn a new technique, I earnestly practice it- but I also look forward to when I'm 70 (if I can make it that far) and appreciate my abilities will have probably improved by then as well. You can do a repetition of ten roundhouses twice a week and over time improve, but you could also do 10 roundhouse once a day, everyday, and improve even faster. In that comparison, I'm assuming one is executing the technique correctly... otherwise as we all know you're just reinforcing bad technique. Likewise, if you execute a single technique, and use it just once a day, within a decade chances are quite good it will be a very skilled technique. It's all a question of how fast you want to learn that other style, and in addition to learn, how to incorporate it into one's natural fighting style. Just remember that speed can risk sloppiness.

It brings to mind Bruce Lee's addage, 'I do not fear the man who has used 10,000 kicks, I fear the man who has used one kick 10,000 times'. I'm patient enough to practice what I know I need to, when I feel like it, and on other days, work on other areas. It's all about patience, and if you try to rush cross-learning different styles, you'll begin to actually mix the styles up into something new, and probably ineffective.

It was always important to me, and will continue to always be, that if I use a technique, I know what it is for, against, why I used it, and why it was the best choice in that context, in addition to being able to explain how the mechanics of that technique operate, and what style it's from.

Shotokan, Tae Kwon Do, and Muai Thai all have something which could be, and often is considered a 'roundhouse, or roundkick'. When you can differentiate between each, and utilize, as well as teach, I'd venture to say one has effectively cross-styled without murkying up their own art.

You can do a repetition of a strike until it's engrained in your memory. I feel... that by doing say a repetition of 10 on whatever I believe needs work on, at least once a day, allows one's body to also grow and change with the art, so that it becomes more natural.

It's why I can block in the 5 different ways of tkd, at the best time possible. Just... don't make the mistake I did, which was to think an art is 'crap'. No martial art is, and if there are any crappy ones, then they aren't of the art in actuality.


But also don't make the mistake that every art is complete. Not every art is a right fit for everyone, and certain arts compliment each other. Moo Duk Kwan and Wing Chun, Muai Thai and Krav Maga are examples. And the combination to best compliment changes from person to person, because we're all different as the cliche goes.

Is it possible for you to post without looking like you get all of your "knowledge" about martial arts from internet FAQs and bad Kung Fu films?

Kid, stop stinking up threads by posting to them.

 

[geezer]

Most of what I have to say has already been said. I've found that I forget most of that which I don't practice. On the other hand, if I ever gained any proficiency in the art, there is a certain sense of the feel, energy or balance that stays long after the precise techniques are lost.

As a kid I wrestled. I was never great, or especially driven to become a champ like my big brother, but I had some aptitude. Regardless, I quit to pursue other sports in high school. 35 years later, a young guy challenged me to a go. I couldn't remember squat, but I gave him quite a hard time. The feel of it had stuck with me to a surprising degree. But could I still really wrestle in my fifties? No way.

The second art I spent time in was basically an offshoot of Kenpo being falsely marketed as traditional Chinese Kung fu. Hey it was the 70's, you know, the Bruce Lee craze and all that. Anyway I achieved an intermediate rank, something like a green belt, and later dropped the art in favor of a true Chinese art that suited me better physically. I didn't practice that first style ever again and I don't remember any of the forms. But I do remember how we punched, kicked and blocked, the basic stances ...and have demonstrated those movements occasionally to show my students different ways to attack, defend, to generate power and so forth.

Ironically, although I retain almost nothing of that system, and am physically not capable of many of the high kicks and acrobatic movements, I'm sure I can execute the few punches and blocks I do remember more effectively than I could back when I actually trained that system. Again, the basic "feel" is still there, along with thirty-some additional years in other arts which have given me more understanding of how to relax, focus and generate power.

Nowadays its all I can do to stick with two arts I have loved for years, WC and Escrima. Sometimes its hard to find training partners and continuing instruction in the particular systems I've chosen. Middle age and numerous injuries mean that I am somewhat limited in what I can safely do. And, frankly, I learn a bit more slowly and forget more quickly than I once did. Still, my instructor tells me that I hang on to what counts. Once, when I had only recently returned to training after a lay-off of many years, I was assisting my instructor with a demo in front of a group of students. After a certain point, my mind froze and I couldn't remember the correct counter to the move he was demonstrating. I remember him saying, "I know you know this. Now get ready because this is for real" ...and he attacked me hard! Somehow I defended myself instinctively ...with the correct movement. No remembering, no thought, just doing.

Now that doesn't happen all the time. So I focus on what matters most to me. Mostly, I have to struggle to remember, to train sequences, forms, paired drills, sparring. And I know for everything I learn, I will forget something else. Someday we die and forget it all. But for now, and hopefully for a long time to come enough will stay with me to make it all worthwhile.

So back to the OP. No I don't try to retain it all. I simply try to retain what matters.