Steven Pinker on the myth of violence

[Makalakumu]

http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html

Interesting talk. Dr. Pinker produces some statistics that show that violence has greatly declined as times have advanced. Rather then living in times that are getting worse and worse as we go, the human condition, in particular, the amount of violence, has gotten much better.

I think we can see this in how we train our martial arts. It certainly is much different then how they were trained long ago.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

A very interesting presentation. Thank you for posting it!

Daniel

 

[Makalakumu]

It is fascinating to take this into account when considering the state of the arts today. It certainly fits the bill when one considers the popularity of martial sports over martial arts and the fact that many martial arts have become completely sanitized of their brutality. In my experience, when people see a fighting system as it was in a day when violence was more common, they are often totally repulsed. Thoughts?

 

[sgtmac_46]

http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html

Interesting talk. Dr. Pinker produces some statistics that show that violence has greatly declined as times have advanced. Rather then living in times that are getting worse and worse as we go, the human condition, in particular, the amount of violence, has gotten much better.

I think we can see this in how we train our martial arts. It certainly is much different then how they were trained long ago.

While this may run contrary to what many folks believe, i.e. that things are 'getting worse', it's very much what I have believed for quite some time. It seems pretty clear that violence as a society wide phenomenon has been on the decrease for quite some time.

The reasons for that seem fairly straight forward.......most human conflict is the result of resource conflict. Humans in western civilization, even the poorest, have access to human necessities. Poverty in the western world is a relative affair, meaning simply having less luxury resources. Moreover, the efficiency of the government executive to respond to violent individuals, and segregate them from society is at a point as to nearly be a science. The result is that violence increasingly only exists in pocket sub-groups of society, and is relatively foreign to the larger society as a whole.

 

[sgtmac_46]

It is fascinating to take this into account when considering the state of the arts today. It certainly fits the bill when one considers the popularity of martial sports over martial arts and the fact that many martial arts have become completely sanitized of their brutality. In my experience, when people see a fighting system as it was in a day when violence was more common, they are often totally repulsed. Thoughts?

Violence in western society has become specialized. The vast majority of society are specialists in other areas, and have absolutely zero experience with violence. The result is that violence, when they are confronted with it, is a completely foreign concept, except as Hollywood fantasy.

 

[Makalakumu]

While this may run contrary to what many folks believe, i.e. that things are 'getting worse', it's very much what I have believed for quite some time. It seems pretty clear that violence as a society wide phenomenon has been on the decrease for quite some time.

The reasons for that seem fairly straight forward.......most human conflict is the result of resource conflict. Humans in western civilization, even the poorest, have access to human necessities. Poverty in the western world is a relative affair, meaning simply having less luxury resources. Moreover, the efficiency of the government executive to respond to violent individuals, and segregate them from society is at a point as to nearly be a science. The result is that violence increasingly only exists in pocket sub-groups of society, and is relatively foreign to the larger society as a whole.

I think your comments dovetail quite nicely with what Dr. Pinker was saying. He gives four reasons at the end as to why violence is decreasing. This "fifth" reason that you propose could be called the Wealth Effect. As society becomes more wealthy, there is less reason for violence.

 

[Makalakumu]

Violence in western society has become specialized. The vast majority of society are specialists in other areas, and have absolutely zero experience with violence. The result is that violence, when they are confronted with it, is a completely foreign concept, except as Hollywood fantasy.

Wouldn't this specialization prevent people from seeing the "watering down" of the martial arts because they are unfamiliar with techniques that would actually work?

 

[sgtmac_46]

I think your comments dovetail quite nicely with what Dr. Pinker was saying. He gives four reasons at the end as to why violence is decreasing. This "fifth" reason that you propose could be called the Wealth Effect. As society becomes more wealthy, there is less reason for violence.

It makes perfect sense. From a historical perspective, ALL wars are really reducible to conflict over resources, regardless of the ideological underpinnings used to justify them. That's true from ancient tribal conflict to the WOT.

There is another, far less provable, theory I have that may have contributed to the decline of violence in the western world.........that is the active selecting out of violent traits among individuals in civil society over the last several hundreds.

I strongly suspect that some, more violent characteristics, are genetic. And truly violent individuals over the last several hundred years in the western world have faced execution and incarceration at the hands of the state, limiting their ability to pass along those genetic traits. Society increasingly becomes less and less tolerant of those types of individuals, and their ability to profit off those traits in a civil society become less and less.

Correlating with that is the fact that children are treated more and more humanely, especially over the last hundred years, and that takes out a vital environmental influence in creating truly violent individuals.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Wouldn't this specialization prevent people from seeing the "watering down" of the martial arts because they are unfamiliar with techniques that would actually work?

It would prevent the average person from seeing it. The specialists in violence would, however, be MORE aware of it.