Violence on the Social Spectrum Vs. Anti-social violence

[GBlues]

I've been busy, or I'd have responded here earlier.

I think what the original poster is discussing are two different types of violence. Rory Miller, in Meditations on Violence, uses the term "Monkey Dance" to describe one type of violent encounter, and I think it's a really good term. It's what the OP here seems to be describing as "social violence." A Monkey Dance is about showing status, rather than really doing harm. That doesn't mean you won't get hurt -- but it's not violence for the sake of violence, if that makes sense. Monkey Dances are typically preceded by a variety of behaviors and signals that it's coming. All of these are opportunities to back down and recognize the other person's status. A Monkey Dance requires at least two participants who both feel that they've got something to gain by playing. You ever see a big dog just look at some yappy thing that's barking and trying to intimidate the big dog, with a "yeah, right" attitude? Or seen someone trying to get someone to respond who just doesn't see that person as any threat at all? Who's going to get worked up at a 5 year old kid threatening to beat 'em up?

Real violent attacks are something different. The purpose isn't to simply tweak status -- it's to obtain a goal. That goal might be money, it might be rape, or it might be murder, but it's NOT about position. (Some gang violence is perpetrated against an innocent party to improve status within the gang -- but it's not a Monkey Dance, and won't be committed in the same way. The attack with be a violent attack.) It's going to be fast, surprising, forceful, and vicously powerful. There's not going to be much build up or warning; often, the first clue it's happening is when the fist hits or the knife goes in. The watchwords of certain tactical ops are Speed, Surprise, and Violence of Execution. They apply equally to attacks by criminals. This is the sort of thing that the OP here called "antisocial violence."

I think the terms social and antisocial violence aren't bad -- but they're confusing because of the conventional uses of the terms, and because of popular misunderstandings. But semantics don't help you deal with them.

The best preparation for a Monkey Dance is confidence. It takes two (or more) for that particular tango. If you're secure in your status, like that big dog, you won't have a problem. Or the idiot that tries to escalate the Monkey Dance will discover that you can more than handle him.

How do you prepare for the real violent attack? Awareness, prevention, and realism in your training. Transcend the rote repetition, and move to instinctive, unthinking response so that, when you are the victim of this sort of attack, you have tools available. It's not easy, it's very scary... but it can be done.

Hey thanks for posting this, that's what I was trying to get at. I'm sorry if I didn't explain it well enough, guys. I just tried to describe what I meant as best I could, his examples are much better than mine. Let's base the thread off of this guys post

LOL! Thanks for posting this.

 

[teekin]

GBlues, think about this. The thousands of nurses ( woman for the most part, yes?, sorry Cryo) who work and care for the violently mentally ill, the FAS, the real detached asocial psychotics on the medical, psych, or god help us surgical wards, how do you think we cope with these guys? We are outweighted by 50-200 lbs, are often alone for short periods of time, can NOT strike first and wouldn't anyway. We are trained to Watch for signs of tension and escalation, tiny minute signs. Pupil constriction, tension in forarms or neck muscles, clenched jaw, dry mouth, tension in the abs, rapid clipped speech, short, quick movements, closing distance, rapid shallow breath, not mirroring me when I try to draw you into an exchange. Once again think about this, 5 Million years of evolution have produced your hardwiring. Do you think that 500 years of living in cummunities 200 years of cities is going to change that? Isn't that what gut feelings and intuition are about?
lori

 

[GBlues]

GBlues, think about this. The thousands of nurses ( woman for the most part, yes?, sorry Cryo) who work and care for the violently mentally ill, the FAS, the real detached asocial psychotics on the medical, psych, or god help us surgical wards, how do you think we cope with these guys? We are outweighted by 50-200 lbs, are often alone for short periods of time, can NOT strike first and wouldn't anyway. We are trained to Watch for signs of tension and escalation, tiny minute signs. Pupil constriction, tension in forarms or neck muscles, clenched jaw, dry mouth, tension in the abs, rapid clipped speech, short, quick movements, closing distance, rapid shallow breath, not mirroring me when I try to draw you into an exchange. Once again think about this, 5 Million years of evolution have produced your hardwiring. Do you think that 500 years of living in cummunities 200 years of cities is going to change that? Isn't that what gut feelings and intuition are about?
lori

Well, yeah I can see your point. However, I'll tell you this, in all sincerety gut feelings and intuition only go so far. I remember some guys that I used to hang out with, good friends, ( well, I thought they were), till one of them jumped me. No signs, no words spoken, just full on violence. There might be those signs, but during a friendly conversation with a 'FRIEND', you don't recognize those things. That gut feeling has done been put to ease, months, maybe even years previously, I'm talking about guys that go from a mr.rogers personality to kill in side of a nano-second. They aint out to beat you, they aint out to humiliate you, their, whole goal is to kill you. They are not going to show you those signs. By the time your able to figure out what happened the conflict is over and their gone. In your line of work, you deal with these types of people all the time, right? However, your also in a detention officer type job. They are locked away, because they are mentally ill. Now that being said, there is a world of difference between what I'm talking about and what your referring too. I'll explain.

When I was a kid I had a little sister that would throw temper tantrums. Sometimes she would just jump up and down, while screaming at the top of her lungs. OTher times she would lash out at people trying to strike them, bite them, kick them, scratch them, whatever she could do. Totally and completely lost to her temper. She once attacked me with a baseball bat, and because of her anger her swings were wild and wide, and easy to stay away from, until I could counter her attack. The same with the people that you deal with I would imagine for the most part. They are in the throws of a tantrum, and are lashing out, wildly. There is no plan. Now the guy or guys that I'm talking about know exactly what they are going to do to you...KILL YOU!!! They are like a shark in the water with a human. You or I may have swam with that great white a thousand times, and he never attacks us. But one day, you do something, flick your fin the wrong way, or swim out of the norm, and BANG! He sees you as prey, and attacks. No warning, no reason to believe that he would he just does. The same with these guys, you could raise your eyebrow the wrong way and they just attack, there is no time to prepare a defense. One minute they are smiling laughing, having a good time, and the next second they are all over you like flies on stink. My question is how do you train yourself to defend against that so you might live? What type of response training should you practice? Just random attacks like in the old pink panther movies? LOL! I joke but at the same time I'm dead serious. I worry about this kind of attack more than the monkey dance. The monkey dance I know the signals and how to handle those, it's the others that scare me. What are the best drills to train for something like that? Thank you for the post by the way also.

 

[qwksilver61]

Yeah...call it majick..whatever....for people who believe that the gut check has actually saved some peoples lives from time to time....impending doom.....the heebie jeebies...the heebs...the creeps..blah, blah,blah,,,,,,

 

[GBlues]

Yeah...call it majick..whatever....for people who believe that the gut check has actually saved some peoples lives from time to time....impending doom.....the heebie jeebies...the heebs...the creeps..blah, blah,blah,,,,,,

No, I'm a firm believer in listening to your gut feeling. OR the heebie jeebies, and do so everytime, but there is a point where you get comfortable enough around someone, or they don't have an immediate thought of violence against you. Which in that case, if there is no violence at the moment being cast in your direction your gut might not pick up on it until it's too late.

 

[Carol]

Gut feelings aren't necessarily "magic". The human brain takes in data from its senses all the time, and is constantly matching patterns and drawing associations. Some combinations of sensory input, such as sounds or vibrations, are enough for the brain to tell the pituitary gland to step up adrenaline production a wee bit. This creates a greater feeling of awareness.

Most folks have experienced this when they happen upon an unexpected situation. For example, you're walking down the hall to your office and hear a couple of people in a loud, ugly argument behind a closed door. Most people don't pay attention to the feelings they get from that because they can tell what is wrong, and usually whatever is wrong is distracting them from that odd feeling in their guts.

The brain doesn't always take in information on the purely conscious level. The brain can also take in information, match patterns, and draw associations on a less conscious, or even unconscious level. The physiological process is the same, your brain tells your pituitary gland to send out a bit more adrenaline. But, the this reaction occurs on a less-conscious level, the conscious mind doesn't really have a full understanding of what was done. The body is left feeling the physical results...that strange feeling in one's gut that makes you believe something is wrong.

 

[morph4me]

No, I'm a firm believer in listening to your gut feeling. OR the heebie jeebies, and do so everytime, but there is a point where you get comfortable enough around someone, or they don't have an immediate thought of violence against you. Which in that case, if there is no violence at the moment being cast in your direction your gut might not pick up on it until it's too late.

If you know someone well enough to get to the point that you're comfortable around them, then picking up on something should be easier, not harder. There are bound to be inconsistincies or incongruities in your normal interaction that should set off alarm bells. How you choose to respond to those alarm bells, whether you ignore them or look for what they are trying to tell you, makes the difference.