A hunch about sparring emphasis and real-violence denial in the MAs

[BrandonLucas]

There is no doubt of the rush you get when competing...and I can understand how that could be addictive for some people. I know I love the whole experience of an open tournement...everything from the token irate parent(s) to the token "mystery school" that always shows up that no one's ever heard of and everyone watches warrily.

What I don't understand is the reasons as to why someone would almost forsake the SD side of the art to concentrate on the sport side. There are people who know the difference between the SD and sport side, and then there are people who think the sport side is an SD side, like exile was talking about.

There should be a difference between the tools used to win a competition with rules and the tools used to win a fight with no rules. Alot of people have a hard time telling them apart.

I've known a couple of guys that went around saying that they were blackbelts and could take anyone at any time...and they tried a few times...both of them were from an ATA TKD school (no offense to any ATA'ers out there)...but this ATA school had no contact sparring. And by no contact sparring, I seriously mean that they had no contact. Any techniques were performed 4 - 6 inches away from their opponent. It's only fair to say that they had nice technique, in terms of aesthetics, but they didn't understand their applications or how it felt to be truly hit.

Needless to say that the 2 guys didn't have a good reputation around school...not because they would actually pick fights....but more because they would pick the fights and then lose them. Everytime.

Oh, sure, they were great point sparrers. I would see them at a few of the tournements I would go to in the area, and they would always place either 1st or 2nd in sparring...I even lost to one of them once...but they absolutely did not understand the SD side of TKD at all. Not only that, but their attitudes were competitive in a non-healthy way.

 

[Tez3]

. . . . . . . . . . . .
This is very true, there is much less chance of a group of Mongols galloping into your city and attacking that is for sure. But in the world today the likelihood of day to day violence depends on where you live. But I would speculate the average person is much safer now than they were when the majority of these MAs appeared on the scene.

One should never be surprised at what turns up near you! I went into town the other day and there was a bunch of Native Americans singing and dancing in the market place. They were genuine and friendly though.


Just a thought, how do people feel about martial artists who train to fight, who enjoy fighting? Not sparring, actually fighting.

 

[BrandonLucas]

One should never be surprised at what turns up near you! I went into town the other day and there was a bunch of Native Americans singing and dancing in the market place. They were genuine and friendly though.


Just a thought, how do people feel about martial artists who train to fight, who enjoy fighting? Not sparring, actually fighting.

This is a pretty hard question to answer for me. There are a couple of levels on this one, so I think I'm going to be long winded again...sorry in advance...

Ok, so, for starters, martial arts should teach you that the last option to any confrontation is to fight...and by learning martial arts, you should learn the steps to avoid using what you learn. Martial arts is actually one of the few things you learn to not use.

So, that being said, we now need to define what actually fighting is...and as I see it, there are 2 options:

1) Fighting in a self defense situation when all other options have been exhausted, and you're fighting for an actual reason and cause, and there are no rules.

2) Fighting for money, much like the MMAists do in the UFC or other organizations in which they are paid to fight....but there are rules involved in the fight.

So, now, we'll start with number 1.

If a martial artist enjoys the confrontational aspect of fighting, then I wouldn't consider that person a martial artist at all. We are taught to avoid these situations, especially when the dangers exist of seriously hurting or killing another person come into play. These dangers are magnified by the fact that there are no rules as to what can happen during the fight.

As far as the second scenerio goes...I guess this could still be considered sparring to a degree, but with more realism. This would go towards the competition side of martial arts, and, as far as my view goes, competing isn't a bad thing, but shouldn't be the only thing a martial artist strives for.

Good question, though.

 

[Tez3]

I can see why people have the idea about martial arts being for defence etc but why then is it called martial arts? Why isn't it called defence arts?
Why do we only defend, why don't we attack? Would you say the original 'users' of martial arts the Samurai etc were martial artists as they did the same arts as we do but used it as a skill of war.
Much is made of the use TKD in the Korean army, are they martial artists or not?
Are we softening and dumbing down martial arts by saying you only use them as last resort? In this country you are allowed to strike first if in fear of your life, does that mean to be a true martial artist I have to wait until I'm hit?
On the question of MMA, many fighters don't fight for money only the pros do. The rest of us fight for the love of it. Where does that leave us?

 

[Xue Sheng]

I can see why people have the idea about martial arts being for defence etc but why then is it called martial arts? Why isn't it called defence arts?
Why do we only defend, why don't we attack? Would you say the original 'users' of martial arts the Samurai etc were martial artists as they did the same arts as we do but used it as a skill of war.
Much is made of the use TKD in the Korean army, are they martial artists or not?
Are we softening and dumbing down martial arts by saying you only use them as last resort? In this country you are allowed to strike first if in fear of your life, does that mean to be a true martial artist I have to wait until I'm hit?
On the question of MMA, many fighters don't fight for money only the pros do. The rest of us fight for the love of it. Where does that leave us?

In Xingyiquan attack is defense and first strike can also be a defense

 

[BrandonLucas]

I can see why people have the idea about martial arts being for defence etc but why then is it called martial arts? Why isn't it called defence arts?
Why do we only defend, why don't we attack? Would you say the original 'users' of martial arts the Samurai etc were martial artists as they did the same arts as we do but used it as a skill of war.
Much is made of the use TKD in the Korean army, are they martial artists or not?
Are we softening and dumbing down martial arts by saying you only use them as last resort? In this country you are allowed to strike first if in fear of your life, does that mean to be a true martial artist I have to wait until I'm hit?
On the question of MMA, many fighters don't fight for money only the pros do. The rest of us fight for the love of it. Where does that leave us?

I think these questions are going to be different for everyone. I personally only use my martial arts training for defense purposes, as a last resort...the physical training, anyway.

I would think that martial is included in martial arts because the training gives one the ability to handle a situation martially...that is, in a combatitive way...that neither specifies attack or defense. The attack/defense factor is decided on the artist...which, to me, lends the use of the term "art"...it gives one the ability to choose how to use the martial training.

As for MMAists that fight for the fun of it...are the MMAists that you know really fighting, as in trying to disable their opponent beyond the point of continuing? Are their intentions toward their opponent bad?

I would think that someone fighting in MMA and enjoying it is doing it more for the competition side of it. You enjoy doing what you're good at...and if you're good at fighting in MMA competitions, then that's what you're going to do. I honestly think that if they got the same rush building model airplanes and competing, they would do that. How many people who fight MMA and get beat up constantly do you know that enjoy it?

I think as far as that goes it comes down to someone having a good time doing what they're good at...and that there are rules involved in what they're doing. Now, I think it's a whole different story if they do it maliciously in a no-rule scenerio.