Staying down in stance vs. moving vertical

[wingerjim]

I was just wondering how many of you stay essentially at the same depth of stance, especially when striking, vs rising slightly when striking? I have seen several videos like this one

or staying down like in this video

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Maybe it's my non-WC eyes, but I don't see a lot of rising in the first one. He certainly does seem to on the first strike, and a bit on a few others, but the bigger difference (again, to my eyes) was that he was sending more from the hip (for power generation) than the second one, which shows in a shift in his head in the video frame. I'm interested in hearing WC folks' discussions of what they see in these.

 

[Nobody Important]

Speaking for only for my branch of YCWWC, we have movements of bending forward, back, left & right and rising/falling to accommodate the three levels of high, medium & low. It's all contextual based upon what is trying to be accomplished with the movement, evading & hitting (Sim Da), pressing & hitting (Bik Da), striking (Da), Throwing (Sow), seizing (Na) or kicking (Tek). This is all determined by position, distance, angle etc. and the actions of the opponent.

 

[KPM]

Sink, rise, spit, swallow, rotate left, rotate right.....these are the energies I use in my Wing Chun.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Maybe it's my non-WC eyes, but I don't see a lot of rising in the first one. He certainly does seem to on the first strike, and a bit on a few others, but the bigger difference (again, to my eyes) was that he was sending more from the hip (for power generation) than the second one, which shows in a shift in his head in the video frame. I'm interested in hearing WC folks' discussions of what they see in these.

He's got a lot of rising in his technique. In Jow Ga we were always taught that we don't rise to strike. This should be about the same for most Chinese Martial arts. The rising causes a break in the structure and increases the vulnerability. The height that you stand at is the height that you strike at. If you need to strike higher then raise your stance but do not raise your stance when you strike. The body should move forward to drive the power of the strike. When an upward strike is needed then the power for that strike doesn't come from pushing upward. It comes from pushing forward and keeping the structure of the punch.

Some schools may teach differently so this is just one perspective of this.

 

[Nobody Important]

He's got a lot of rising in his technique. In Jow Ga we were always taught that we don't rise to strike. This should be about the same for most Chinese Martial arts. The rising causes a break in the structure and increases the vulnerability. The height that you stand at is the height that you strike at. If you need to strike higher then raise your stance but do not raise your stance when you strike. The body should move forward to drive the power of the strike. When an upward strike is needed then the power for that strike doesn't come from pushing upward. It comes from pushing forward and keeping the structure of the punch.

Some schools may teach differently so this is just one perspective of this.

Quite true, many schools of TCMA teach that methodology. While I see the purpose of this, it's not something I personally adhere to. I think it is to ingrain structure at the beginning level and with fundamentals. IMO advanced methodology requires use of leverage punching, which relies a rise or fall in movement, driving energy from legs, waist, spine to arms. Western boxing makes good use of this method, much more so than TCMA, but it is still present to a degree in some styles. I say whatever works best for you and you are comfortable with, carry on. Results are the only things that matter.

 

[KPM]

Quite true, many schools of TCMA teach that methodology. While I see the purpose of this, it's not something I personally adhere to. I think it is to ingrain structure at the beginning level and with fundamentals. IMO advanced methodology requires use of leverage punching, which relies a rise or fall in movement, driving energy from legs, waist, spine to arms. Western boxing makes good use of this method, much more so than TCMA, but it is still present to a degree in some styles. I say whatever works best for you and you are comfortable with, carry on. Results are the only things that matter.

I agree. Certainly in the Pin Sun Wing Chun I learned one may sink with a defensive movement and then rise with the offensive counter-strike. And the rising motion can be coupled with a forward motion. Moving forward with a strike does not exclude rising with that strike at the same time. One of the San Sik explicitly teaches to drop or sink when defending against a low-line strike and then to rise with the punch directly from that position. It is called "Saam Gin Choi" or "three arrows punch." "Arrow punch" implying a perfectly straight traveling strike...."straight as an arrow"! The "three" being straight out in front at "normal" level, downward at an angle while sinking, and upward at an angle while rising.

 

[anerlich]

My dummy practice largely involves applying force horizontally into the centre of the dummy, the dummy giving me feedback that my angles and structure are correct. There are moves that lift and drop the imaginary opponent, but the general trajectory is horizontally toward the centre of the dummy.

In the first one, IMHO he is exaggerating the shock power at the expense of flow, perhaps for demonstration purposes. In the second I would try to keep his flow but drive in a bit harder and sometimes at slightly different angles than the subject does. But, different strokes.

"Hell's Bells"? Seriously?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

"Hell's Bells"?

So I wasn't the only one who thought a bit of AC/DC was odd for a dummy work video?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'm interested in hearing WC folks' discussions of what they see in these.

Without seeing the feet, it's hard to tell whether his hand and foot are coordinated or not. The punch and front foot (or back foot) landing should be coordinated.

 

[drop bear]

the idea is you dont really reach but walk into position. So if you want to change levels your whole body changes levels.

This keeps you arms closer to your body and therefore a bit more structurally sound.

 

[drop bear]

My dummy practice largely involves applying force horizontally into the centre of the dummy, the dummy giving me feedback that my angles and structure are correct. There are moves that lift and drop the imaginary opponent, but the general trajectory is horizontally toward the centre of the dummy.

In the first one, IMHO he is exaggerating the shock power at the expense of flow, perhaps for demonstration purposes. In the second I would try to keep his flow but drive in a bit harder and sometimes at slightly different angles than the subject does. But, different strokes.

"Hell's Bells"? Seriously?

At least it isn,t let the bodies hit the floor.

 

[ShortBridge]

It is possible to change elevation somewhat without rising out of your stance. Grounding is sacred and I adhear to the theory that you shouldn't leave it, but that's not the same as staying on the same level.

 

[KangTsai]

HE*K me these videos are relaxing to watch.

 

[Grandmaster Yue men quan]

I was just wondering how many of you stay essentially at the same depth of stance, especially when striking, vs rising slightly when striking? I have seen several videos like this one

or staying down like in this video

They are actually both staying in stance the guy in the top video has a problem with sink the elbow if you watch.

 

[DanT]

If we're talking about Wing Chun I typically stay at the same level. For Shaolin there's a lot of movement (especially for uppercuts) and ducking techniques for evasion (like boxing). I might lower my body when delivering a straight to the body for example. Or I might duck under a hook. I might sink down and then rise up while doing an uppercut for example. Imagine this combo:

Drop low jab to the body, rise up cross to the face, duck under opponents blind hook, Rise up with upper cut to Chin. This is just an example. In Wing Chun I don't move my body as much but I do duck when I have to and move my head and body to evade.