Split from Christianity and Self-Defense article topic

[jks9199]

The Eucharist was instituted as Jesus and the Disciples had their Passover meal; the format of the Eucharistic prayers as well as the idea that it's a continuation of the same sacrifice are reflections of the Jewish roots. Note that I am not saying they are identical or the same -- only that the root can be identified.

 

[Xinglu]

A sabbath day.

But not the Jewish Sabbath. So not THE Sabbath. Christians have rejected the Jewish Sabbath and have chosen another day altogether. Instead of the seventh day of the week, the first. A sabbath does not THE sabbath make. That would be like saying A god equates THE God.

In Jewish kingdoms, it is not the wife of the King who is the principle Queen, it is the mother of the King who is the principle Queen. This is clearly seen in the Marian devotions of the Catholic church, as St. Mary is the Mother of the King (of Kings).

Is that only the Catholics? Or do the protestants and other Christian churches revere Mary in the same way? Furthermore, I want to know the Jewish take on this: do the Jews offer prayers to women that they may intercede on your behalf with God? Is this ACTUALLY a Jewish tradition/belief? My gut says "no."

Monotheism. God as the Holy Trinity? God as Triune, yet still 3 = 1? And don't get me started on that evil dude with horns that also has ethereal powers. Not trying to be facetious or disrespectful here, but I think the Jewish influence is why Christianity is a monotheistic faith, and not polytheistic faith.

Yet the Jew's deny the Trinity. They (a few friends of mine who are jewish), have suggested that the trinity is more polytheistic than monotheistic. If the Jews on this forum are willing to confirm or deny this understand I have I would greatly appreciate it.

I'd guess that the vast majority of Catholic boys are circumcised, at least here in the US. Can't say about elsewhere. As an aside, the word circumcision is borrowed from Latin circumcisio (as opposed to Hebrew or Greek).

Do you have to get the snip to to be Catholic? Because to be a Jew it is an absolute requirement. No snip, no conversion.

 

[Carol]

But not the Jewish Sabbath. So not THE Sabbath. Christians have rejected the Jewish Sabbath and have chosen another day altogether. Instead of the seventh day of the week, the first. A sabbath does not THE sabbath make. That would be like saying A god equates THE God.

So observation of a sabbath day, one day a week had absolutely nothing to do with Judaism? Nothing at all?

Is that only the Catholics? Or do the protestants and other Christian churches revere Mary in the same way? Furthermore, I want to know the Jewish take on this: do the Jews offer prayers to women that they may intercede on your behalf with God? Is this ACTUALLY a Jewish tradition/belief? My gut says "no."

Ah, but note that I said nothing about intercession in my post. But Mary being recognized as Regina had nothing to do with the Jewish traditions of principle Queen of a Kingdom being the King's mother and not his wife?

Yet the Jew's deny the Trinity. They (a few friends of mine who are jewish), have suggested that the trinity is more polytheistic than monotheistic. If the Jews on this forum are willing to confirm or deny this understand I have I would greatly appreciate it.

So, Christians (and likely most reputable theological bodies, Christian and non-Christian alike) viewing themselves as monotheistic had nothing to do with Judaism?

Do you have to get the snip to to be Catholic? Bechause to be a Jew it is an absolute requirement. No snip, no conversion.

I dunno. I suspect not. However...the original posit was framed with regards to traditions, which are not necessarily things one has to do to be Jewish.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

we pray for the resoration of the Temple and a return to animal sacrifice 3 times a day. Those Laws have not been abrogated, merely suspended.

We still practice the Family Purity LAws. A Jewish man will not have direct or indirect contact with his wife from the begining of her periods until she has gone to the Mikvah.

Interesting. Would that be all Jews, or certain sects of Judaism?

In a word, no. That would make us Xtians.

The point is that they would not be non-Jews, ethnically or traditionally speaking.

Considering it is the Sign of the Covenant, as told by G-d to Abraham, I'd say it is pretty darn important. We have circumsised our children under every possible conditions. Completely secular Jews will have their boys circumcised.

I didn't say that it wasn't important. What I was saying was that it was not necessary for non-Jews to perform.

It is not wrote practice of tradition. Judaism is a way of life. It defines who I am and how I relate to the world. I pray 3 times a day. I utter blessings when encountering the wonders of the world around me.

I believe you. But I still don't think that you have to abandon those practices to be a Christian, and they can have the same spiritual value because Christianity is based on Judaism.

Faith and acts are not mutually exclusive. In fact, there is a much greater emphasis on acts, here and now in Judaism than in Xtianity.

It is just the fact that our faith drives our acts, our acts don't drive our faith. That is the point.

 

[Xinglu]

So observation of a sabbath day, one day a week had absolutely nothing to do with Judaism? Nothing at all?

No, not Jewish tradition. If it was Jewish tradition it would be the seventh day of the week and not the first.

Ah, but note that I said nothing about intercession in my post. But Mary being recognized as Regina had nothing to do with the Jewish traditions of principle Queen of a Kingdom being the King's mother and not his wife

Sure, the Jews would give the kings mother a ton of respect, but prayers for intercession are applicable here as I doubt very strongly that even the most liberal Jewish tradition would take their respect for the king's mother that far. Probably, because it would violate their monotheistic view. At the very least (assuming [for arguments sake, of course] multiple gods existed) they would be praying to an entity (note that I am not regarding her as a god) other than God thus violating their tradition/belief structure. The level of respect given to Mary by the RCC is not in line with Jewish tradition as I understand it. Once again, if any of the Jews on this forum care to correct/expound/elaborate please, I would appreciate it.

So, Christians (and likely most reputable theological bodies, Christian and non-Christian alike) viewing themselves as monotheistic had nothing to do with Judaism?

Looking at what the Jewish definition of monotheism is, I'm not entirely sure that any trinity based faith can be considered monotheistic. Once again, the Christian faith has taken a term, interpreted it and redefined it to fit their needs/dogma/wants to say that it is the same as or even reflective of Judaism seems (IMHO) to be reaching a bit.

I dunno. I suspect not. However...the original posit was framed with regards to traditions, which are not necessarily things one has to do to be Jewish.

My original question (to which I'm assuming you were replying to) was: If it is not against Christianity to practice and observe Jewish rites and traditions, then why don't Christians do so? Christians to not View God in the same way (trinity), they do not observe the same Sabbath (or even in a similar way), and Circumcision is not mandatory for Christians as it is for Jews, and then there is the Whole Mary issue (but only for Catholics, as not all Christians regard her as the Catholics do).

 

[Carol]

My original question (to which I'm assuming you were replying to) was: If it is not against Christianity to practice and observe Jewish rites and traditions, then why don't Christians do so?

Hmm...damn good question, and one that I personally don't have a good answer for you, to be honest.

I can make some wild guesses...

- Many Christians don't understand Judaism. There may also be many Christians that think they understand Judaism but instead hold a perception that Jewish folks feel is inaccurate.

- Many Christians who are learned spend more time in study devoted to their own faith than in study devoted to other faiths.

- Fo Christians, belief in Jesus is a necessary condition. As such, the New Testament, particularly the Gospels, are typically emphasized more than the Old Testament.

- Christianity doesn't teach Jewish traditions.

- The two faiths progressed as seperate faiths, each developing their own branches, cultures, and traditions over the past 2000 or so years.

- There isn't much "encouragement" for the cultures to intermingle.

- Jews are a distinct minority in the US (and most other places where there are a high percentage of Christians). Outside of Israel, the Jew has had to adapt to the Christian more than the Christian has had to adapt to the Jew.

 

[cdunn]

Yet the Jew's deny the Trinity. They (a few friends of mine who are jewish), have suggested that the trinity is more polytheistic than monotheistic. If the Jews on this forum are willing to confirm or deny this understand I have I would greatly appreciate it.

One even could make the argument that, especially when called an aspect of God, the Christ is a living idol made of flesh and bone. He is, after all, an effable, physical representation of the ineffable God. And, well, I think the point of 'idols == bad mojo' is adequately made.

 

[celtic_crippler]

I don't roll on Shabbos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-g2skOVkL0&feature=related

 

[yorkshirelad]

The Samaritan at the well ? This is a famous story.

You do not know this story. It comes as no surprise.

If more jewish people knew what Jesus Christ really taught then there would be peace between the arabs and jews.

The inquisition is also a famous story. The crusade are a really good yarn. If you want to hear a wonderful story to tell your kids, tell them about the one and a half millenia sexual torture done to children by the Catholic clegy. Then tell them how the heads of this wonderful Christian organization tried to cover these crimes up to preserve their wealth and power. Tell them how Ratzinger (God's rep on Earth supposedly) relocated pedophile priests to different parishes so they could continue raping children without fear of being caught by the secular authorities.......Oh sorry, what was that about Jews not knowing Christ again. Btw, I want you to list the powerful Jewish organizations that have covered up the rape of children by their own Rabbis.

I'm waiting..........

I've only just started reading this thread, so I'm sorry that I responded to such an old post, but the hypocracy chaps my ***!

Wow this is an old thread. I really dont want to ressurect the dead. Should've left that to Jesus!