Splashing Hands

[7starmantis]

In a kenpo word: Rebounding. Microseconds matter in combat. Rather than striking a "1" strike (in FMA terms) and returning to a chamber before sending out the next strike, letting the one carry through under it's own momentum until it contacts some part of your own body allows you to re-start into a new direction with a new strike in about 1/4 the time involved with re-chambering the strike for the next hit. Like skipping stones off the waters surface....the time the stone is in flight, it's a natural weapon hitting an opponent, and passing through the target, instead of stopping on it. Skipping off the water at an angle that sends it back into motion is the self-slap. Up and away into the next leap is the next strike, incidently on its way to the next hit.

Ok, I may just be a little daft, but I'm not sure I understand your point here. I mean I understand letting your attack carry through. We do that alot in mantis, and I understnad grabbing the hand, or hitting the hand with a strike or kick, we use that as well. However, it seems that striking the body with the opposite hand is a wasted movement no? It ties up both hands while you may need the other hand to block or attack. Slapping your own chest while striking takes away part of your defense or guard. Also, slapping a moving stirke not only removes power from it but changes its direction (even if minimally). How do you combat these issues while using the slapping technique? I mean, I'm not suggesting chambering yoru attacks at all (I am of course a mantis person) but applying a slap (force) to your attack removes needed precision in my opinion and occupies both hands while only utilizing one. Voluntarily adding a changing point to a strike would be a bad habit to get into in drills no? Or is this something done in forms and drills that is not used in application or fighting?

I guess I understand your explination as far as "rebounding" but that dose not apply to slapping ones own chest with one hand while striking with the other does it?

7sm

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Ok, I may just be a little daft, but I'm not sure I understand your point here. I mean I understand letting your attack carry through. We do that alot in mantis, and I understnad grabbing the hand, or hitting the hand with a strike or kick, we use that as well. However, it seems that striking the body with the opposite hand is a wasted movement no? It ties up both hands while you may need the other hand to block or attack. Slapping your own chest while striking takes away part of your defense or guard. Also, slapping a moving stirke not only removes power from it but changes its direction (even if minimally). How do you combat these issues while using the slapping technique? I mean, I'm not suggesting chambering yoru attacks at all (I am of course a mantis person) but applying a slap (force) to your attack removes needed precision in my opinion and occupies both hands while only utilizing one. Voluntarily adding a changing point to a strike would be a bad habit to get into in drills no? Or is this something done in forms and drills that is not used in application or fighting?

I guess I understand your explination as far as "rebounding" but that dose not apply to slapping ones own chest with one hand while striking with the other does it?

7sm

To start, I don't advocate self-slapping for self-slapping's sake. We don't just Kong thump ourselves. The slap checks and proprioceptive self-cues -- properly used -- contact self at specific points in movement. Unfortunately, this application in kenpo was under-represented in the main, and is largley ignored or lost. But not completely.

The functions are both biomechanical, and proprioceptive, and are placed and timed to accentuate an action, rather than stunt it. As a study, like I metioned, most kenpo folk don't do it well...unless, by chance, they have cross-trained in a kung-fu system that includes similar body checking mechanisms. Most attempt to mimic Mr. Parkers slapping, and without the information about how and why, create mis-steps. Like slapping the chest when it don't apply.

An example: In kenpo is a technique called 5 swords. It is a "recent" development over an older "7 swords". In newer versions, there this whole bending the guy over thing. I mention this so that kenpo readers will know that I'm not holding to the bending-over version, but rather to a peppering-the-guy version.

In it, there is a sequence of movements in about the middle...right foot forward stance: Right vertical punch (delivered low, like an uppercut), followed by a left outward handsword to the high line with the rear hand, followed by a right inward handsword to the same area with the lead hand. The uppercut is supposed to be a power move. The right inward handsword is supposed to be a power move. The left outward handsword, sandwiched in the middle, is a short move to help gauge the distance and location of the target for the right inward chop. Delivered with chambering, they would be three distinct movements, with the hands either chambered at the hip as in karate, or held up in checks as in chinese systems.

A biomechanics side track: For each joint, the body has some directions it likes to move, and some it ain't so fond of. Joint mobility is typically allowed degrees of freedom in one plane, but limited freedom in another. Consider the knee: Great flexion/extension, not so great to have that same amount of joint surface translation in the side-to-side direction. To prevent or limit movement in the medial-lateral plane, MCL and LCL ligaments act as "check ligaments", checking the side to side movement. Now, if there is a consciously controlled movement in the directions allowed by the joint, and the movement is ballistic and fast (such as throwing a front snap kick), the body will avoid subluxation or injury to the joint by neurologically inhibiting that action...i.e, slowing it down before it gets too far. This happens unconsciously, and reflexively, as the instability near the end of the range of motion is sensed in the receptors in the joint. In studies with "locking" knee braces with very minor plasticity at end range (tight springs, rather than locking hinges) subjects kicked harder (soccer sports physio experiment, with a psi measure-thingy on the ball/target) when the knee had an artificially-induced stopping point, then when the athlete had to stop the forward momentum of the kick themselves. So, let's go back to the 5-swords..

On the uppercut with the right hand, the body will beging slowing it down if it is unsure of the distance left to travel, or force expenditure upon reaching the target. So, as the right hand shoots to the blow, the left hand slaps the right biceps, just where it starts to ascend under the anterior deltoid. This acts as a temporary check ligament, giving the body a cue as to when it's good to stop, how far it's safe to proceed without damage. That uppercut can be thrown harder in close quarters then one without that slap-check. (try it on a heavy bag). Additionally, the left hand is now "proprioceptively primed". With the body always asking "where am I?", the more feedback we can give all the parts, the better job the brain can do of coordinating the movement and power of these parts in synchrony.

So, the left chop takes off to it's target from the right bicep check location, instead of from a hip or floating check. Try throwing left outward chops in each of the 2 following ways...1) hand "near" the right shoulder, but not touching, and note the reaction time from when you say "go" in your head, to when it hits, as well as how HARD it hits, then 2) just touch your right shoulder with one finger of that left hand, and note the reaction time.

Next...why the slap, then, if it only takes a touch? Any strong agonist activity also increases attenuation of the muscles in the antagonist. So, bringing your hand sharply to you, and thumping/pulling into your own body, also raises the tonicity, conversely lowering the level of activation for primary agonistic contraction, of the muscle that would fire it off in the opposite direction (a flexed bicep makes it easier to fast-fire a tricep then a flaccid arm). In short, the left chop can take off from the runway faster after slapping self. The appearence of the whole thing is that we just slapped ourselves on the chest (which some do, not knowing any differently), but what we really did was to target the upper humerus, to provide a temporary check ligament against the forward translation of the arm in forward flexion and elevation (the planes of movement the shoulder engages in with an uppercut).

The final inward handsword...prior to throwing it, it should move (as the short left chop goes out) up toward the head, with a couple fingers touching the crown of the skull, and the palm turned as if about to throw a baseball pitch. Why? good god...I've got a 150-page text here on the biomechanics of throwing that I couldn't possibly summarize in this post. Suffice it to say the mechanics of a 90-mile per hour pitch generate more force at the end of the stroke than a "point of origin to point of contact" inward chop that comes from a floating check positioned towards the front of the body.

The backnuckle delivered to the side of the body is another great example of common slap-check application, but rather than re-write it, I'll try to find the post and paste a link to the thread. In a nutshell, the slap is again placed at the front of the shoulder joint, to act as a check ligament. The body senses the increased stability, and no longer fearing posterior-to-anterior sprain, strain, or luxation of the gleno-humeral joint, no longer inhibits the backnuckle musculature, taking the speed and power out of it in mid-flight. It is allowed to complete it's path with full recruitment, because a safety mechanisms has been super-imposed over the proprioceptors and mechano-receptors of the joint.

So, the slaps, properly done, are placed to AID in the generation of power, and not inhibit it. But, again, you won't see this in a lot of the kenpo out there. While most do the 5-swords uppercut check at the biceps, that's about where it ends.There should be self-slaps accompanying almost every move in every technique and form, but with the absence of proper information about how and why, it's just noise and interference. Content, without context, lacks meaning.

Regards,

Dave

 

[merc]

Gentlemen, you are leaving out a crucial element to the Haumea system and that's the foot work that plays a crucial role in angle and range that is constantly changing from off center line to direct center line and back. Sometimes simplistic moves such as turning on the ball of your front foot exposes other tools of availability and shifts the center of a good stylist forward sometimes redirecting his opponent off his attack line momentarily. This leaves the opponent exposed or stunned. In my system we call this the principle of delay and we work this theory to optimum effect. Still as much as you may question its effectiveness, I have seen both Kempo and the Haumea system and by far the Haumea is truly unique. Chris, I asked what principles you hold of importance to your system. This is only because I feel that the principles of any system are by far the most valued and trusted imprints of a teachers legacy. Unfortunately, Sifu Haumea left very few that I still remember. This was not because the system was elementry in form but only that Sifu did not express too much about the complexity of the art. Most students did not ask. You have to understand this as Tiny's presence in the room was overpowering. He was truly a warrior without question. Though he had somewhat of a humorous side as well, I remember him most for wearing a heavy black gi, pant bottoms with sandals on his feet and multi-colored Hawaiian shirt when not on the floor teaching, of course. I have since that time trained with some newer masters and unfortunately my style has become somewhat eclictic to say the least. I have drawn a division between deceptive outside engagement and direct infighting, thus given up on all ability to master both left and right side equally, but you will be happy to know that over 30 years of exposure to self defense I still prefer Sifu Haumea's system when practicing infighting though I have used its techniques equally on the outside as well. Our footwork pattern is a subset system from Bukti Negara Pentjak Silat shown to me by my mentor Guru Cliff Stewart. This footwork pattern has very common similarities to Splashing Hands, but the box is somewhat intricute in design kind of like Splashing Hands on steroids, it can be somewhat complex in its design to a beginner but reveals itself through the principle of the clock, a principle used by the late Mr. Lee. It's somewhat simplistic to understand as all our movement starts from Wu Chi or center stance (Earth). Your opponent is always at 12 o'clock thus stepping forward on a direct center line to your opponent (closing the gap) would be 12:00 side stepping inward and to the side off center line and outside of his direct punch would be 9:00 respectivly. Well I'm sure you feel this is pretty simple and yes we do try to keep it somewhat simplistic in nature, but the method use of this footwork pattern is to set up angle and direction of strike, you see guru was a student of Hideki Frazier who taught the Dillman theory of pressure point attack. This component used with the footwork pattern of Silat allows us to document all technique by somewhat of a formula nature, example L/F to 9:00 at SI 7 at 3:00 R/F to 9:00 L/F to 1:00 GB31 to GB20 at 5:00. We use other principles as well and many drills to build connection, rooting, and transition. Above all principles we hold to in highest esteem they are the principle of range "No block can succeed without adequate range" and the principle of verticle alignment "that you must break the verticle alignment of your opponent before any throw can succeed". These are just a few and it is very difficult to understand our system without a deeper discussion of its complexity and its simplicity but I will leave you with this, I know how quick the hands and feet of a good Haumea stylist can be. We have adapted much use of Chi Sao in our system and it has allowed us to transcend our understanding of connection allowing our students to ultimately free flow and create themselves. I have found one practice to be of great asset. It is not uncommon for me to expect more transition understanding by allowing more advanced students to practice in a strobe light environment. This allows them to actually see frame by frame the complexity of their movements and in time become even quicker than before. Warning though a strobe light setting can be somewhat medically hazardous to some people, so experience with caution.

Your friend, sincerely Merc

 

[chris lomas]

That interesting. I have adapted push hands with the shuffle to try to teach flow. The points thing is over my head I'm afraid. How did you get the idea for the strobe light?
Best Chris

 

[merc]

Hello Chris, hope you are well, yes we use push hands as well in our system used as a prepitory exercise for silk reeling and Chi Sao, silk reeling has hidden defensive blocks which are very similar to Wing Chun. We have a signature block in our system called parry reinforcement which is given to all new students upon their first lesson. I have seen similar technique to this done by other schools, and most call it cross blocking of some sort. There is a video by James Ibrao made by Banana Graphics that shows this block, but he calls it the double pat and claims to be the creator, well it bears a very strong similarity to the Pa Kua transitional change hand movement. The reason I mention this block is to give you a better understanding of angle and direction in our system and how important it is for documentation of technique, without it future students can dilute and lose essential elements of importance. The block is broken down into front hand (Pac Sao) direction of contact is at 2-3:00. Being that your front center line is always 12:00. The guard hand is held at center chest line and reinforces the Pac Sao with a Tan Sao block to 12:00 or 1:00. The movement is forward and off center line and is described as left foot (L/F) to 9:00 followed by the rear foot which is placed slightly behind the front foot described as (R/F 9:00) this creates a very tight stance and it is stressed that the rear foot point towards the 1:00 position which allows for the knee to have proper direction to target pressure point GB31 on the leg. We stress proper angle and position into all our opening technique and by doing so allows for proper direction upon striking your opponent. This is the essential element in pressure point defense that can't be learned from a book. You can see how this type of documentation could be so vital to thoroughly learning a form such as Siu Sup Ki Kuen or small cross "respectively". As for your question about the strobe light, guru required that all hand drills be enhanced with low vision lighting to give difficulty in the problem solving stages. We have only adpoted his training and theories and have taken this exercise a step further by using the strobe light as a enhancement tool in such training exercises as de-escalation of force and verbal conflict. This is where traditional meets modern allowing students to find what works and what doesn't in a realistic environment as possible including plastic chairs, tables, lots of screaming and yelling, loud music and of course a strobe light setting. This causes chemicals to react in the brain which enhance long term memory conditioning. Students deal with a stress enduced environment and come away with new found skills of confidence. This is kind of like the old masters final test of courage and skill for their student. It is our sparring exercise as we hold true to the principle of a 6 second engagement and control during attacks.

Your friend, Merc

P.S. My brother in law trained with James Ibrao for a number of years and James may have new Haumea, would this help in your research?


What does one truly hear in combat? Through all the sounds of chaos and hell? The only sound one truly hears is the sound of limp bodies that hit the ground.

 

[eyebeams]

Splashing Hands is not only not an old style, it's not even called Splashing Hands. It's a subset of Mok Gar techniques called 闪手 -- "san soo" or sanshou," in fact (sound familiar?). Thanks to martial broken telephone, these techniques were most likely spun out into a seprate sub-art as Lefiti and McNeil elaborated on them.

This does not make Splashing Hands valueless. Arts have been founded on less, after all, and if they're effective one must respect how they have been elaborated.

 

[kal]

It's a subset of Mok Gar techniques called 闪手 -- "san soo" or sanshou," in fact (sound familiar?). Thanks to martial broken telephone, these techniques were most likely spun out into a seprate sub-art as Lefiti and McNeil elaborated on them.

What makes you say that?

I have no knowledge of Mok Gar -- and only seen a small bit of Splashing Hands --and so I am genuinely interested to hear how you infer this. Are you basing it on the fact that the Chinese characters are the same? Or do you see techniques within Splashing Hands that you can identify as coming from Mok Gar?

I agree with you when you say that if an art is effective one must respect how it has been elaborated, but I am curious to know what makes you think that such elaboration has taken place in Splashing Hands.

Can you recommend anywhere (book, website etc.) that shows the techniques in the Mok Gar subset that you say is called San Soo?

I have always been very fascinated by the history and evolution of martial arts styles. Just recently I was chatting with a researcher who has some very interesting theories about the real origin of Aikijujutsu (the parent art of Aikido) and which are totally contrary to the official history.

 

[eyebeams]

What makes you say that?

I have no knowledge of Mok Gar -- and only seen a small bit of Splashing Hands --and so I am genuinely interested to hear how you infer this. Are you basing it on the fact that the Chinese characters are the same? Or do you see techniques within Splashing Hands that you can identify as coming from Mok Gar?

I agree with you when you say that if an art is effective one must respect how it has been elaborated, but I am curious to know what makes you think that such elaboration has taken place in Splashing Hands.

Long legs and short hands are the main characteristic of both. Several sources call Lefiti a Mok Gar master and it is plausible that Wong knew Mok-style techniques. Furthermore, Mok and Hung styles are often either taught together or are components of Five Families systems.

Another indication is that the "sanshou" style with those characters (not the same characters as sport sanshou) hasn't ever been found in China. For one thing, arts that end in something other than "quan" are pretty rare. For another, it's entirely plausible that the "sparkling hands" characters used by SH are actually a secondhand translation from phonetics, which makes it much like other "sanshou" subsystems arts have developed over the years as abbreviated training courses. Jimmy Woo's Kung Fu San Soo is another example of a kung fu "sanshou" subsystem that has turned into its own thing. Sometimes these short systems are also "gate" traditions that teach a system in a short period to turn out effective fighters while leaving the full corpus of kung fu for eadvanced students. There's a White Eyebrow school in London, ON that's done this recently.

In addition, Lefiti may have taken influences from kenpo and lima lama. I believe it comes down to Mok Gar because of Lefiti's background and the Mok style being a common element of the teachings of all of *his* teachers, as well as Mok Gar's short hands/long legs.

Can you recommend anywhere (book, website etc.) that shows the techniques in the Mok Gar subset that you say is called San Soo?

Mok Gar's not a very common style on its own, but parts of it are to be found in Hung Gar and Five Families systems. Hung Gar in particular tens to pick up parts of other arts to supplement its characteristically Southern core.

 

[kal]

What about all this business about SH originating with temple guards at the Northern Shaolin temple?

 

[chris lomas]

Eyebeams,
After having researched this (including watching and learning froms from both southern and northern Mok Gar teachers) I can personally see no co-relation - aside from normal aspects of Kung Fu they are very different. Humae did learn Mok gar from Ark Yuey Wong (alongside techniques from the other four families, 10 animals etc) and other styles with Ralph Shun. This means he had no need to invent lineage etc. I have seen Ark Yuey Wongs Mok form and, again, it is very different from splashing hands.

My teacher says that Huame told him Splashing Hands was taught to him as a system in Taiwan, Chiao Chang Hung (from Taiwan) also recognised it as a style. Seeming (who is Ark Yuey Wongs heir) says Huames knew the system known as Splashing HAnds from Taiwan before learning under Ark Yuey Wong (he says it on a forum thread, though I have lost it it is probably searchable). My Teacher also says the 'legendary' origin of the system was told to Huame by the same teacher. I am sure Huame Contributed from his own background and knowledge at least to the training methods and drills of the system.

Huame was also fluent in seven languages so IMHO unlikely to make a translation error. I believe that San Shou (or free-fighting techniques) has quite different intonation and characters to San Shou meaning Splashing Hands. In fact that is why we use english to stop confusion.
However Douglas Wong (founder of White Lotus system), who studied for a time with Huame, felt that it was white crane/Mok gar based system - he has a wide influence due to his brother (Curtis) owning IKF and being a well known instructor - that is why Mok Gar comes up when talking about the system.

Again I am not trying to argue with anyone as I would love to know the basis of such a ingenius and usable system (whether traditional or modern/eclectic doesn't 'matter' to me - I am a Martial Artist primarily not too bothered where a concept comes from so long as it is usable), however without other proofs and no evidence to support other theories I just follow the 'traditional' idea.

Merc, Thanks for your help thus far.

 

[kal]

It doesn't seem that the history of Splashing Hands is in any worse position that that of other, well-known and "mainstream" Chinese martial arts.

Look at Wing Chun. Despite being such a well known and accepted style, the history is clouded with undertainty. You can't even pinpoint the era of the origin of Wing Chun, with different sources conflicting to the tune of hundreds of years! Not to mention that there is question whether Ng Mui, Yim Wing Chun were real people.

Tai chi as well. Again, there is doubt about when exactly Chang San Feng lived and if he even existed at all.

Unfortunately, it seems that Chinese martial arts were generally less documented than their Japanese counterparts and that makes any attempt at verifying history a very hard (if not imposible) task. By contrast, many of the classical Japanese arts kept very meticulous written records and this makes it a lot easier to trace things back even to the 15th century in some cases.

 

[chris lomas]

Absolutely,
IMO Splashing Hands often get 'questioned' more harshly then other 'unknown' systems for two reasons 1. The guy who chiefly represents it (My teacher Laoshi McNeil) is a westerner 2. We use the western term for the name. Its bizzare because of course some lineages are going to be passed to hard working western students, and anyone can buy a chinese-english dictionary. Again Huame was teaching before the kung fu series/'bruce lee' explosion so Kung Fu was relatively unknown so he would have gained little from calling it 'Kung Fu'.
I know two old guys (one 84 the other 92ish) who both learned in there youth what they simply refer to as 'Kung Fu', when questioned further 'Shaolin'. In many schools you tended to just train hard rather then be a walking historical textbook .

 

[merc]

I believe absolutely that splashing hands is an art of Kung Fu developed many centuries ago by masters long since been forgotten for whatever reason we may ponder. I have never seen Mok Gar though I would like to and as far as San Soo, I did practice with a close friend who was ranked under Sifu Chuck in Burbank, CA (San Soo), though he never discussed the origin of San Soo other than it being created by Grand Master Jimmy Woo back in the 30's. As far as Tsoi Lee Ho Fut Hung, this was never discussed and I see no similarities of any kind between this system and Splashing Hands, as you may want to call it. Back then the most important thing was practice, you didn't ask too much about the origin of a particular style, only that Kung Fu back then was divided into soft and hard styles. I do not give complete credit for the creation of this system solely to the Chinese, it has too much similarity to Polynesian cultural dance and it is my belief that this may have had some type of impact on this system and that it is quite possible that Chinese masters elaborated on this theory of defense. There was a culture of people in a dense tropical forest off the waters of Orinoco River around the border of Brazil and Venezuela, these people were called Yanomamo and they were fierce warriors of the jungle that would challenge one another within the community or surrounding villages, to chest pounding duels taking hallucinagentic drugs to heighten their courage. These people strike a close similarity to the people of Polynesia, Samoa and New Zealand, all of which tested their bravery by acts of fierce warriorship. The people of Polynesia settled into the area somewhere around the 7th-13th century and probably migrated from South/East Asia since there is linguistic and aguricultural similarities, passing through Melanesia, Western New Guinea, Indonesian Province of Papua and South of Solomon Islands, bear in mind that the Chinese culture goes farther back than 5000 years and that trade was common during the Ming Dynasty. I believe that many systems of self defense and quite possibly splashing hands has been around hundreds of years before Bodhidharma influence in 527AD with the Lo Han set that may have strong origins from India and quite possibly date back to Egypt. There is a book out by Gavin Menzies called "1421 The Year China Discovered America" that is worth reading. It basically states that on March 8, 1421, the largest armada the world has ever seen, set sail from Beijing to circumnatigate the globe and did so a century before Magellan and 70 years before Colombus discovered the new world, if this is so, I wonder what influence the colonies they left throughout the world had? and I wonder what treasures they brought back to China in 1423? Maybe splashing hands, who knows. All I can really say is that when I studied splashing hands from Sifu Haumea, he had this look in his eyes, the same look I saw many years later studying under Sensi Benny "The Jet" and the same look that the Gracies had when doing seminars and ultimately the same look the delta teams had on Ft. Bragg, NC. These guys didn't care where a good technique came from, the only thing they cared about was:
"Is it quick and was it efficient". So what makes an art acceptable and somewhat authentic? Well is it practical, and if so then splashing hands certainly qualifies if I was in a pinch in a dark alley and had only one friend to help me, you can bet he would know splashing hands.
MERC

 

[chris lomas]

Merc,
Your information is fasinating as always. It is unfortunate that I am no scholar and not the smartest at this research buisness.

It is amazing how many people will abrasively 'question' a system and how few will then stand toe to toe with you to recieve the answer. You are absolutely right (fighting is not a 'nice' thing) but without it as a -the- fundermental justification and measure of martial arts they are just an empty talking shop.
PS that isn't a critisism of people here, theres questioning and 'questioning' (see below)!!

For example my teacher, who has always been humble yet has learnt under five great masters - being passed lineage by 3 of them(!) still training hard in his mid 60s, has been attacked on Bullshido (a forum where many of the lowest of the low dregs of wannabe life hang out) particulalry for his teaching Splashing Hands, yet I will not even bother debating on that site as I know there is not a man there who will be prepared to back up statements by visiting my school (thats an invitation to the Bullshido guys...-). Yet they remain happy simply snipe from beneath their little rock . Sorry bit off topic but this attitude bugs me as they act as if they are 'defending' martial arts whereas many are just sounding off about there MMA predjudices that everything should look like Muay Thai and BJJ (and yet the best MMA practisioners I know are very open to different methods - again anything that works).

Anyhow, Merc, how do you remember the structure of Sifu Huame's classes going? What two person apps/drills did he really focus on regularly. When did he start people 'sparring' etc. Basically any snippets of information are always greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance,
Respects
Chris

 

[merc]

Well ok, I will try to recollect as much as I can about the school and Sifu Haumea. I remember distinctly that the school was rather small in comparison to other schools I have been to since that time and I have been to quite a few over the years. There was a small office area in front that opened to a rectangle room with a trophy showcase against the far side wall, I think. It was always somewhat dark as the lighting I remember during daytime classes was sometimes produced through the outside light that came in through the front door. There were no mats and the floor was of concrete and painted, I believe. There was a Lima Lama symbol on the West side wall and the North side wall had a back door which lead to a small walkway between 2 buildings. It was rather cool there as the sun did not penetrate down between these 2 buildings and I liked this place because it was somewhat quiet and peaceful. The classes composed of lots of basic drills and students sometimes lined up to be tested on wheather they were wearing a cup that day, sometimes you were just asked and if you said that you had forgotton to put one on you sometimes were kicked between the legs anyway just to enforce your memory next time around. This is how it went lots of commands, lots of yelling, sometimes leading into personal profanity directed towards a slow student. This I remember very well as I was not by any means at the top of the class. The drills seemed to focus on the "browns" though I have seen Sifu McNeil's tape on this and there are some basic variations but overall it is somewhat the same. Drills were stressed in the beginning of class (close the gap, double punch, re-direct, etc.) this all done as a warm up exercise I believe since I don't recall any stretching or yoga for warm up, Ha Ha! Then came the browns done by command stressing proper foot work (foot placement) and always speed challenging slower students to always keep up with the rest of the class then we paired up sometimes you had a favorite person that you liked working with and sometimes you got paired up with a more advanced student who didn't hold to much back. I have seen Sifu McNeil's tape, his students do not step in with the right cross, this is one thing I remember distinctly that the right cross was always delivered by stepping in with the right foot and that the stiff kick was stressed to be directed towards the groin area and planted center line of the attacker though I remember brown #3 being a heel kick to the groin after the pivot and brown #4 was the sweep though there was four strikes after the sweep and one palm strike directed towards the head with the right hand, left hand slaping the right wrist (open palm strike). Sifu Haumea taught class every now and then and I remember that though he was somewhat strict in his teaching it was a treat in comparison to Sifu Tino who was just down right "mean". So as much as I can remember basic drills were given by command somewhere to the tune of 500-1000 reps completely just for warm up then browns were given to the same tune sometimes less sometimes more then the class divided and paired off, always stressing more speed and contact. Class normally ended with advance students performing a particular form (small cross, snake, etc.) Sparring was stressed only if you were to compete in an upcoming tournament and I didn't see too much of this in open class. Well I hope this helps you somewhat understand your system, bear in mind that my recollection of the structure of teaching is somewhat shadowed by time, but the highlights I have given you, I recollect to be as true as I can possibly remember.
Your friend Merc

 

[7starmantis]

To start, I don't advocate self-slapping for self-slapping's sake. We don't just Kong thump ourselves. The slap checks and proprioceptive self-cues -- properly used -- contact self at specific points in movement. Unfortunately, this application in kenpo was under-represented in the main, and is largley ignored or lost. But not completely.

The functions are both biomechanical, and proprioceptive, and are placed and timed to accentuate an action, rather than stunt it. As a study, like I metioned, most kenpo folk don't do it well...unless, by chance, they have cross-trained in a kung-fu system that includes similar body checking mechanisms. Most attempt to mimic Mr. Parkers slapping, and without the information about how and why, create mis-steps. Like slapping the chest when it don't apply.

Ok, I can see that, but aren't you still using one hand to make contact with your own body when it could be used to make contact with the opponent or attacker? It seems your tying up both hands to do a technique that only uses one hand. I'm talking of a purely fighting situation here however.

7sm

 

[merc]

Yes, I often wondered this myself if dropping my guard hand was in my best interest and the added movement of striking my body (splashing hands) was really needed for the purpose of infighting, but then a principle disclosed itself over time as I started to relate to keeping your elbows as close to your center line as possible for added strength. Try this test: if a person of agressive nature shakes your hand and overly squeezes, there is not much you can do-Just take it! but if you point your index finger straight out, mimicing a gun pointing back at him, it strengthens the entire hand preventing him from doing harm, simple huh? Well the same theory holds true for elbows aligned within center line and feet straignt foward when in a horse stance (Mah Bu). The farther your elbows exceed off center line, the weaker your arms will be and if your feet are canted away from your center line, the weaker your legs will be. And yes I know this is somewhat simplistic but the same theory hold true for your shoulders when striking. If your shoulder is held in place tightly to your center line, it makes the strike much stronger. This is one of the main reasons I believe why "Splashing hands" opposite hand comes back to your body- to train yourself "not to turn your shoulders too much on the inside during infighting". Still don't believe this? well then try this trick, there is a technique in Aikido called "Nikyo" it is a simple wrist grab (better if you know this technique) but here goes: Your opponent grabs your wrist either same side or cross side grab, you counter this move by traping his hand on your wrist then wraping your attacked hand around his wrist applying force downward towards you and the floor/ground. If you don't know this technique, it will take a few times to learn it and those that do know this technique will tell you first hand--HA HA "get it" that it is almost impossible to resist the pain. But here is the trick, your opponent reaches in and grabs your wrist (you are in a wu chi position) you step with your opposite side "foot" (the side that has not been attacked)forward and in just off center line (center line will always point towards 12:00 in front of you) keep your forward shoulder "forward pointing towards 10:00 or 2:00 and try to resist his attack once more, you will find that the forward shoulder and the structure of the rear elbow make your position very strong. This same theory hold true in splashing hands by allowing the shoulder to never exceed past your flank and always structurally align with your opposite arm creating one "massive unit". This is important in splashing hands and I was taught that the hand always rebounded off your body for quicker response, is it important not to drop your guard hand, well the guard hand cannot respond to an attack unless there is connection with the lead hand, without connection you are too close to your opponent to offer any effective defense. I was taught that the hands recoil off your body much like water that splashes against rocks, it simply bounces off and connects once more to its forward position. If you look closely at the opening sequence in many of splashing hands techniques you will see that the hand that slaps the shoulder bounces back at a high position and the hand that slaps below the chest strikes at a lower position. The reason for this is becuase they have anticipated the attackers arm being either fully extended or somewhat in a recoiled position allowing them to attack low line to the body then striking high line to the head or neck area for maximum results with minimal effort of neurological response. You can see that this type of training is very direct and maximizes time efficiently and it is not uncommon for a beginner student to effectively strike his opponent with a flury of combinations sometimes throwing out 4 to 5 strikes per second. Hope this gives you a better understanding of Sifu Haumea's system of splashing hands.
MERC

 

[chris lomas]

Merc Thanks a lot for your continued time and help. We do several varations of the browns so the ones on the videos are just one example (that said did you ever find out why they are called 'browns', my teacher never asked, so we just don't know:idunno:!).

As for stepping in on the right cross, could you reiterate that? I was a little uncertain what you meant. I know we tend to pivot a little on the back foot (but don't stress to beginners as they tend to throw too much uncentred body weight behind it) do you mean a little advancing step (so presumable like a jump shuffle forwards) or a slight side step (like brown ones first step)?

Thanks again, respects,

Chris

 

[merc]

sorry can't help you on the "browns issue" as I am in the dark myself!
Though your (on video) browns look much more like beginning purple belt "sets 1-8" as i remember it somewhat. But I do remember that the attacker always jab in place then step in with a right cross, there was though variations to this. Is there anymore video's planned for the future?
Your Friend: MERC

 

[7starmantis]

Merc, Thank you for your responses so far. I think I understand your point from your last post. We are simply comming from different ideas or philosophies of fighting I believe. I must confess, I'm a mantis fighter all the way so my guage is a little biased towards our principels and methods. I'll outline a few reasons the "slapping" is confusing to me or I do not agree with it. It is find that we disagree, thats the beauty of different systems and styles.

1.) Loosing contact. In mantis we stress contact at all time, so to voluntarily slap your own body with one hand breaks that principle. You would have to break contact with your opponent to make contact with your own body. Or, you would have to drop guard to do so. Thats why I find it confusing.

2.) Your description of "why" centers around creating strength and resisting your opponents techniques. In mantis we do not resist but yield and "go with" the opponents techniques. Thats one of our key weapons is to move with a technique so the opponent hasn't even realized he hasn't performed the technique until he runs into our own attack or series of attacks. We call this "opening and closing the door". Take the same technique you mentioned "Nikyo". Your approach (which I'm not sayign is wrong, just different) is to align the body to resist the technique or pain. From my training I would attempt to yield to it and attack myself. For instance I would want to "get ahead" of the downward movement and bring my body in, bending at the elbow. I would initially use the bent elbow to attack the opponent as well (this is all of course considering I couldn't just let go of the grab at the beggining). See, this way, the opponent is still sending his "force" or "energy" or "center" downward and my elbow would be coming upward. I wouldn't need strength or much power as his downward movement would meet my elbow.

3.) Again you speak of being weak from the elbows, while I rely on that "weakness" to yield and move with my opponent. I dont want to be strong enough to resist a technique I want to be relaxed enough to move with the technqiue and finish the circle into an attack of my own.

Just some differences I see in our training...pretty interesting.

7sm