Splashing Hands

[7starmantis]

Welcome to MartialTalk Mr. Baron. Its good to have you here. If you have any questions please feel free to ask. There have been lots of questions about your style of kung fu so its good to have you hear to answer them.

MT Super Mod
7starmantis
Adam C

 

[tshadowchaser]

As a member who reads posts and askes question once in a while i wnt to say
warriorofheaven, first let me say welcome to martial talk
next let me say that the statement

Any further questions email them to me

bothers me. If you are not willing to answere questions except by email why bother posting here in the first place except to promote yourslef and your school

 

[warriorofheaven]

There have been a lot of questions about Splashing Hands Kung Fu. I would like to put those questions to rest. I have in my previous post given people the tools to go find out more if they are not satisfied with the answers I have posted.
I hope people will visit my website at www.kungfupower.com and join the many Little Nine Heaven Internal Kung Fu Schools located throughout the world. I welcome students or those currious about the systems we instruct to come try out a class at my school and see for yourself the quality of the art, the instruction, and combat effectiveness of our systems.

 

[warriorofheaven]

I will try to keep up with the posts here at this site, but there are at least 6 other sites I am trying to keep up with as well. Emailing me martial arts quetions makes it easier for me to respond more quickly, and know where to post the response, and who I am talking too. I also believe that training, teaching, and spending less time in front of the computer is a better lifestyle. My time for this is limited. I apologize for any inconvience. Thank You for your patience with that.

 

[merc]

Hope this will shed a little light on the system of splashing hands, though I do not recall the system being called by the term "splashing hands" originally Sifu Haumea Lefiti, to whom I was a student for about 2 years in the early 70's, the school went by the name Haumea Lefiti Kung Fu at least that's what was posted on the front of the school in Huntington park, California which was rather small in comparison to a Hopkido Dojo across the street run by Bon Soo Han. I do recall that painted on one of the inside walls was a Lima Lama School emblem and that they had a business relationship with a Lima Lama School in the L.A. area and would gather every year to compete in Ed Parkers Long Beach Internationals. I remember that the system was highly influenced by Polynesian tradition and they also gave demonstrations in fire dance. One thing to consider is that a requirement for first degree black belt was to perform a form called "Small Cross Pattern". This form is characteristic of the Choy Li Fut system and I believe it to be one of the original sets in Choy Li Fut. I have seen both Lima Lama and Choy Li Fut and both have similarities to Haumea Lefiti Kung Fu. This I can tell you with all honesty Haumea Lefiti Kung Fu or Splashing Hands as you may want to call it is one of the most effective and devistating systems of self defense I have seen. It is very direct and very effective when used offensively on the inside of your opponent. There are untold questions about Sifu Lefiti and his untimely death that remain a secret that deal with some questionable health hazards when performing some technique from this particular art and soon after his death the school closed. I hope this helps restore some respect and answers your question as to weather splashing hands is an art. I would like to believe that splashing hands does exist and probably has Shaolin influence but Haumea Lefiti Kung Fu is and was a eclectic form of self defense.

 

[merc]

Interesting addendum to this. While watching some footage of Mr. Parker in the old days, one can see a transition from a rigid, robotic Japanese influence, to a whipping, circular and semi-circular influence that took place over a couple of years (before/after). Mr. Chapel commented that the difference was Mr. Parkers training in Splashing Hands. His movements from Hawaii were closer to the Japanese pre- his exposure to A. Y. Wong, but had become faster and more fluid "rapid-fire" after his exposure to Mr. Wong and Mr. Lefiti.

There are still a few alive who were there, and part of it as it unfolded. I hope we will be able to successfully preserve their recollections for posterity's sake.

Dave

Yes I was there back in early 70's and was a student of both Sifu Haumea Lefiti and Sifu Wong, and can tell you that it was Harder back then " Old School" No term like "splashing hands" was ever used and the style was Haumea Lefiti Kung Fu.

 

[chris lomas]

Hi everyone. This is my first post I am Chris Lomas (www.splashinghands.com) and teach in Manchester UK. Its nice ot see Splashing Hands discussed as I find it to be a fantastic fighting art.

Hi Merc its nice to hear about people who trainined under Huame. Yes he did advertise as Lefiti's Kung Fu (or method of self defence) as did his students when they first opened schools shortly after his death. However he when asked about the origins of the style he would say it was called splashing hands. Still what's in a name:idunno:

He was associated with Lima Lama when it acted as an association (originally I believe it wasn't a style but a group of martial artists sharing information under the guidence of Tino - Tiny's cousin(?) hence when it became a style the splashing hands influence was still there (most pronounced in the hand work, I think).

The full system of Splashing Hands consists of fundermental moves (on the square, line drills), 30 basic patterns (sections, browns, advances) Nine Forms (four Corners, Advances Linked, Short Cross, Combination, Butterfly, Dragon, Tiger, Snake and Crane).

IMO the fundermentals and 30 basic patterns and first two forms were from the general in Taiwan (who refered to his art as Splashing Hands - Taiwanese GM Chaio Chang Hung also recognised the style as such on a visit to Laoshi's school in 1984, having known Huame's first teacher).

After that the forms show more of Ark Wong's influence (although the moves are basically all the same just with slight variations to hightligh different applications/varations), and may have been Arks method of teaching (Ie altering his southern style forms to a northern style framework).

Merc, I work very hard at maintaing levels of training, my students never stop warm-up drilling until the school is thick with sweat and at least 5,000-10,000 basic techiques have been performed. It try to model my schools training as closely as possibly to Tiny's - it has cost me many students. They are also expected to maintain rigourous personal practice.

My teacher (laoshi McNeil) has given me permission to film instructional DVDs of the animal forms (I have done three, two to go before realise). These were post-black sash forms. Whilst my presenting skill is very much in the 'Bunny in the car light' mode , the forms are very good and rich in fighting techinques.

PS Hi Rich, hope your well.

 

[merc]

Yes I remember the rigerous training methods of the Haumea's school and the countless repetitions to gain perfection in some what simple applied technique. As to my comment that it was different back then, old school, that it was much harder, I remember that Tiny's method of teaching was some what brutal and a slow learner was quickly punished by a bamboo strike to the top of his head or a famous stiff kick between his legs that sent him gasping for breath in the corner of the room. There was rumor that he would take a newly ranked black belt out on a drinking binge before giving him his certificate and would quickly get him drunk with a pre-planned attack by other black belts that he was not in relation to just to test his ability to defend himself. You can see how this method of instruction can lead to liability suits and ultimately a schools closure. This is what I meant by ther term old school back in the late 60's and early 70's in the streets of L.A. Many of the schools were filled with street wise kids that knew already how to defend themselves and were looking for a mentor. It was a time of hard knocks and racism where Hispanics took to Lima Lama and Africian Americans formed BKF and Ed Parkers International was some what reserved for Parker students. What makes Haumea Lefiti's style so effective is the simplicity of what is taught and the overkill of repetition to gain long term memory retrieval "It is only by being lost in ones technique that one can learn the art of TRANSITION." It is nice to hear that the art is still being taught the old way and is so complete in Haumea's honor.

Your friend,

Merc

 

[chris lomas]

Merc,
I love hearing any recollections about Tiny, the school etc- thank you.
Similar drinking binge thing happened in my teachers case, only it was some old streetfighter (he had no idea it was going to happen) and he had to fight him in the backroom of a pub- he 'failed' (ouch) the first time and had to retake some two years later against the same guy, he says he still remembers the feeling when that guy entered the room the second time

I have been researching for a book on the style, as I worry about the complete method being lost - some time I'd love to chat/pm you for your recollections if that would be okay?
Best respects
Chris

 

[Jagdish]

I would like to ask if the self slapping to one's body has any negative side effect to ones health.If so then which part of the body should be avoided to be slapped?

Yours,

Jagdish

 

[merc]

I have practiced many of the sets and combinations for many years just the way they were shown to me by sifu Lefiti and have not suffered any long term effects from striking my body other than an occasional unwelcomed welt. Though, I have shown these techniques to very few of my students and because I have not been in contact with anyone that knows this system or its techniques other than myself, I cannot say that there has been any negative health effects. Other systems like Lima Lama or Choy Li Fut have similar technique that strike their upper body and I have not heard of any long term negative effects by doing so. Hope this helps.

 

[chris lomas]

Yes, I think so long as you stirke the areas in the forms (Ie. Shoulder, abdomen, occasional forearms) it is fine. I have never seen anyone damage themselves (apart from superficial bruising when they first start training hard). However slapping other places (over the heart lungs, liver spleen etc) could be harmful so make sure you learn a good method from a good teacher.
My teacher - echoing Merc's experience - also has kept up hard practise and is by far the healthiest person I have ever seen (without even taking into account his age!). In fact from a TCM view the stimulation of the dantien and next to the lung channel could be seen as very beneficial.
(PS Merc have you seen much Tombei? Some lineages of it seem to have very similar handwork, I would be interested in oyur opinion)

 

[Jagdish]

Gentlemen:

Thanks for both of your answers.

Yours,

Jagdish

 

[Jagdish]

Nobody has mentioned the slapping to the biceps. Does it have any use as a slapping surface?

Yours,
Jagdish

 

[merc]

Yes, let me add to this a little more in detail, if a practitioner maintains contact with the upper shoulder area and upper abdominal off the central conception line, he or she should be fine without having any negative effects. There are two places to avoid when making contact, 1) is on the chest below the collar bone and in the crease of the arm. There are two dominent meridians that lie in this area, one is related to lung and the other is related to pericardium. Pericardium is the element of fire and lung is the element of metal. Since fire melts metal in the cycle of destruction it is possible to activate these two points negatively. Especially after one has attained a sense of heavy hands that add to the problem. 2) The other area is directly over your heart and is in line with conception 17. This is an energy point and lies very close to kidney 23. These two points can also be activated by precise striking in this area and should be avoided at all times. If you make contact on the shoulder area above the collar line or on the abdominal area off your center line, you should be fine. As for striking the biceps, I do not.

Chris, as for your question about Tombie, please give me more information on this, as I am in the dark. As I stated before, Sifu's art was influenced somewhat by Polynesian tradition. That's all I can say. If one is determined to find the roots of any system, there are blue prints which don't change much over the years. The authenticity of any system can be judged by its blue prints. One is in its footwork, sometimes charted out in patterns that have not changed too much from its creator, other factors to consider are do the strikes in the sets and forms work with meridian (vital press) striking? Still others can be based upon research of its creator or founder going back into the persons life history and last and most important is that I feel research into weapons originally used in any system can show authenticity to its original origin. Hopes this helps the both of you.

Peace, your friend Merc.

 

[7starmantis]

What exactly is the application to slapping your body as far as fighting goes?

7sm

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

What exactly is the application to slapping your body as far as fighting goes?

7sm

In a kenpo word: Rebounding. Microseconds matter in combat. Rather than striking a "1" strike (in FMA terms) and returning to a chamber before sending out the next strike, letting the one carry through under it's own momentum until it contacts some part of your own body allows you to re-start into a new direction with a new strike in about 1/4 the time involved with re-chambering the strike for the next hit. Like skipping stones off the waters surface....the time the stone is in flight, it's a natural weapon hitting an opponent, and passing through the target, instead of stopping on it. Skipping off the water at an angle that sends it back into motion is the self-slap. Up and away into the next leap is the next strike, incidently on its way to the next hit.

This is one of the main ways it's been used in advanced kenpo (Mr. Parker was also a student of Mr. Wong, and a contemporary of Mr. Lefiti). Unfortunately, this application of it has been lost by most kenpoists, who now slap themnselves at inappotoriate times, in an attempt to mimic Mr. Parker. Withouth the context of meaning, the content becomes meaningless. Watching the old man in blazing away at his top speed, you could see and feel and hear the power & speed that resulted from this body-blitz approach to motion. Ah, well. Whaddya gonna do.

Regards,

Dave

PS - This is just based on my own, very likely inadequate understanding of the contributions made by splashing hands into kenpo. I'm basing it on the radical differences in Mr. Parkers own movements, pre- and post- SH training. Particulalry, what he called the gasseous phase of movement, which didn't really exist before he implemented these ideas into Chinese kenpo.

 

[chris lomas]

exactly, well put. You can use 7 star systems strike of the fist-forearm for a similar purpose, like a yielding pak sau (or can be used with a damaging 'bounce' of the attackers limb). The incorporated 'Plum Blossom' sets (I think there are four in some lineages of 7*) show a similar 'slipping' usage.
The slapping also helps define the last point you can cross yourself, avoiding trapping or weaking striking that over crossing causes. It helps give a shock of ging on the moment of striking, helps condtion and is vary confusing to an attacker.
Merc, I meant some of the tombei I have seen has variation of the self slapping, even identical to the basic jab punch. Although the footwork is very different and the systems differ greatly. Also Zimen chuan's (word/poison finger boxing) three gate training is very similar in principle as a method of teaching heavy relaxed whipping bounce.
Highest respects,
Chris

 

[merc]

Yes my hat is off to the both of you. This is a very good explaination of why slaping hands "respectively" is so effective, as it all comes down to speed. Principle in point "Opportunity for success lies within six seconds or less" and I have based all effective martial technique upon this exclusive principle. Chris, yes you are right, three gates training is very similar, but without the rigerous training that Sifu required. I feel that any good technique applied with constant drilling developes ease of transition and this ultimately developes ease of movement and enlightenment of speed. This combined with a solid and balanced foot pattern ultimately builds devesitating power thus (jing). Chris, on a personal note, what principles do you find of utmost importance in your instruction of splashing hands?

 

[chris lomas]

Interesting question. In terms of learning the skill, lots of shuffle drills in the square to teach basic technique linkage, foot and hand connection and centredness, with the spine as an axle. Then taking that centredness into line drills (close the gap etc) before learning the browns. Once the brown are learnt they must do them 1-10 in fifteen seconds or less in any order (1-10, 10-1, evens up odds down etc), and we start putting together complex combinations - as you say mastering transistion. Over time forms are incorporated (but not emphasised) and time limits given to be able to perform them (correctly) in before progressing.
Alongside all of this we practise simple reacion drills (blocking on the shuffle, change, reverse shuffle etc) basic apps for the browns etc. But most importantly always with several options from the attacker so the student remains sensitive and changable in every drill, never a factory machine. We also use the browns sensitivity drills for this. We also greatly stress being attacked in a non stop -street type of way, using line drills. Eventually the attacker wears gloves and a headguard and maintains a contiual street attack until the defender strikes them several times with good enough power and accuracy that without the guard they would have dropped (or at least left good openeings). I feel only sparring cause the subconsious assumption that the other guy will be interested in blocking you (as they spar against brother Martial artists), whereas most streetfighters do not attempt to block only strike and if you can’t defend a continual powerful attack at the same time as striking then you will either end up punching whilst punched or (worse) simple being defensive and having no chance of winning.
High repetition causes the body to find the easiest way, so I always stress that they must go beyond the shoulder ache and calf pains so the body finds new, more effieicent methods. Stopping halfway will only reinforce habitual patterns. However for this to work they must also drill "as if fighting their worst enemy, when fighting their worst enemy feel as if at home practising". That way the motion is linked subconsiously to fighting (for it to come out) and means that people extend properly etc.
In fighting applications we still stress the theories "true not true" "Touch go kiss" and "punch and punch". When I first heard these theories I thought they were too simple to be worthwhile, yet now I greatly value them as great truisms of streetfighting, yet seem very alien to people with sport-influence background.
Merc, what drills do you maintain? Have you discovered any good adaptions? What other styles do you practice/teach? do you find they mix well? Also if you have any stories, or things you would like to say in the book I am writing, I would love to hear them (if you want to message me you name I will, of course, attribute them to you) as I am trying to put peoples experiences in to stop it being dry - unfortunately there are not that many sources who had contact with Huame still findable.

Highest respects,
Chris