spinning...is it really all that great?

[JBrainard]

This was the topic in class last night. We worked spinning back fist with some combos mixed in there as well.

I hated spinning when I was first introduced to it but now Im starting to like (once i got over the feeling that I was going to :barf.

What is your take? useful or useless? for the instructors: what level, belt, grade or whatever do you start to introduce this? or if you dont why not?

what drills do you do to work this?

B

It has it's place. It's just a technique that you don't want to open with. If the guy you're fighting knows how to block (and trap, which would be worse), then he's got you on his side, possibly with your back turned partially towards him. Not good.

 

[Fiendlover]

you a Kempo'ist as well?

we learn spinning at blue as well

B

nope karate'ist.

 

[Fiendlover]

Spinning backfist... a few thoughts...

In favor: 1. generates power though torque. 2. Unexpected, unless telegraphed. 3. Looks cool, unless you get jammed and clobbered.

Against: 1. Exposes your back. 2. Takes a longer path to the target. 3. Looks really stupid if you get jammed and clobbered.

In the system I study I can only think of one or two situations in which any kind of spinning move might be justified. 1. If you are being torqued or twisted by someone trying to grapple your arm, and 2. If (as mentioned before) you are spinning around to face a second attacker. Other than that, we would rather be the guys that jam and clobber!

i totally agree and i love the spinning backfist. i used it to knock down a guy twice my height three times my weight and four times my age. lol :uhyeah:

 

[KempoGuy06]

In the system I study I can only think of one or two situations in which any kind of spinning move might be justified. 1. If you are being torqued or twisted by someone trying to grapple your arm, and 2. If (as mentioned before) you are spinning around to face a second attacker. Other than that, we would rather be the guys that jam and clobber!

You would never use a spinning back fist or spinning back kick in a combo?

B

 

[Fiendlover]

You would never use a spinning back fist or spinning back kick in a combo?

B

I have! As I said...........I love spinning things....... lol :ultracool

 

[MattJ]

Spinning can be a great tool. Understanding the circumstances in which to use it is the hard part. Most people think of spins in attacks; spinning back-fist, spinning back-kick. This is a bad idea for most people, since that attack is too slow and obvious. Not to say that they *can't* be used that way, but again, most people are not going to be able to pull them off.

Attacking spins will have the "focus point" of the technique with your back facing the opponent. Defensive spinning is another story. Defensive spins are different than attacking spins, since (in defense), you will want to turn around so you are facing the opponent. Very difficult to hit or grab a target that is turning away from you.

Some ideas:

* If the opponent pushes your arm or shoulder in an attempt to turn you to your back. Instead of resisting, use the momentum of the opponent's push to spin very quickly around with a backfist or spinning elbow. This will cause the opponent to move back, giving you some distance. If he does not move, he gets clocked. Hard.

* If the opponent grabs you, immediately duck you head under their arm, and spin away from them. If they have a so-so grab, the torque of the spin will pull their hand off. If they don't let go, they will break their fingers or their wrist.

* Opponent catches you in the face with a hook punch. Instead of trying to keep your body still ("snapping" the head relative to the body), let your body turn with the force. Still hurts, but spinning will keep you from getting KO'd, and create distance, making it harder for the opponent to follow up.

Note that BJJ people use spins/rotation all the time to avoid being mounted, reverse positions, etc. Works just as well on the ground as it does standing up. The key in both cases is not resisting the opponent's momentum - that's what they are expecting. :ultracool

 

[DeLamar.J]

Hey nice to see everyone! My instructor always hated spinning movements, so he didnt spend much time practicing them. However I love them, to each his own I guess.
Say someone is throwing a left hook at your face, you spin to your left to avoid the shot, spinning around and catching them with a spinning backfist with your left hand. That just one good senario where spinning moves come into play, same with a spinning back kick ect ect. Use your creativity to find all kinds of useful ways to use these high risk high reward moves.
However, my favorite way to use spinning backfists is to just throw it out at random with full speed and power, slamming my forearm, fist, or whatever happens to make contact. I do alot of bone conditioning so my arm to me is a weapon even if it is blocked my goal is to break your arm if you manage to block it(mindset wise). Sort of a brute like mentality i know, and not much finesse. But you would be surprised how many martial artists dont condition there bones to block a hard attack.
Sometimes you can disable a persons arm or shin with a simple block for a short period because they have not spent enough time on conditioning.
3 star FTW.

 

[ChingChuan]

I'm still wondering what a 'spinning backfist' looks like - does anyone have a nice youtube clip which shows it?
My art doesn't contain any spinning techniques at all - at first, I thought you were talking about the fitness-bicycle-kind-of-spinning

 

[jarrod]

at about 0:40

and a slow demo.

jf

 

[geezer]

You would never use a spinning back fist or spinning back kick in a combo?
B

Nope. I guess I've got an infighter's perspective. Back in '79 I left Chinese Kenpo for Wing Chun, and later added Eskrima. I found that against competent practitioners of these systems, spinning 180 to 360 degrees wasn't effective enough to be worth the risk...especially spinning backfists and elbows. That's not to say they don't ever work. At longer ranges, I've seen some great kickers sucker guys right into their spinning back kicks. And, as I metioned before, there are special circumstances where someone shoves or grapples you, giving you rotational force that you can exploit by spinning. But that's about it.

Whenever possible, I'd dissolve the energy with a partial, 45 degree turn and then spring back forward to strike rather that continuing the rotation all the way around and expose my back.

 

[Tez3]

at about 0:40


jf

Nice! The spinning backfist is often not allowed in kickboxing comps and under some MT rules because it's so effective.
Spinning elbows in MT, big ouch!

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Once when I was in High school. I was sparring a Muay Thai guy. Atleast that what he said he practice. I had no idea Muay Thai had spinning back fist. Anyway he tried the quasi spinning back fist on me. It was too slow I did a simply Block and punched him right in the middle of back then pushed him forward. He was surprise that caught him.


Another time about year ago I was at Tai Chi Class an I was doing Chi Sau with this really Hugh guy. He tried tohe spinning Back fist as well. But he moved slow enough for moved in an hit with a two palm stike to his back. I guess the spinning back fist cold be a great tool. But I have never seen it use properly in a fight or sparring match. If any of you are St.Louis Missouri I would love to trade techniques with you.

 

[jarrod]

Nice! The spinning backfist is often not allowed in kickboxing comps and under some MT rules because it's so effective.
Spinning elbows in MT, big ouch!

huh, i had never heard of it being prohibited in MT. i guess i could see it in the ammys since it could easily turn into an accidental spinning elbow!

in fact, i think that's what happened in a k-1 fight genki sudo was in. IIRC, he got disqualified for this:

But I have never seen it use properly in a fight or sparring match.

click on the link above or the one that tez quoted, & you will see!

jf

 

[KempoGuy06]

Nope. I guess I've got an infighter's perspective. Back in '79 I left Chinese Kenpo for Wing Chun, and later added Eskrima. I found that against competent practitioners of these systems, spinning 180 to 360 degrees wasn't effective enough to be worth the risk...especially spinning backfists and elbows. That's not to say they don't ever work. At longer ranges, I've seen some great kickers sucker guys right into their spinning back kicks. And, as I metioned before, there are special circumstances where someone shoves or grapples you, giving you rotational force that you can exploit by spinning. But that's about it.

Whenever possible, I'd dissolve the energy with a partial, 45 degree turn and then spring back forward to strike rather that continuing the rotation all the way around and expose my back.

thats a good answers.

I always thought it was pointless too, the black belt I always spar would throw spinng back kicks or spinning reverse crescents and sometimes they would land and sometimes they wouldnt. The times they wouldnt I would jamb him up and get some good strikes in. I was never eager to try it but now that I do I see it has its place.

Thanks for the input

B

 

[Tetsujin]

The spinning side kick works, trust me. And when it's landed properly it is a very powerful technique. I landed one last night in sparring for instance, and took my 3rd dan instructor clean off his feet.

You can certainly get in trouble if your opponent manages to close in while you're spinning/chambering so as to crowd your kick. One option then is to immediately reverse your rotation by pushing off your opponent and going into a spinning backfist in the opposite direction. The last thing you want to do is remain in a position where your back is partially turned towards your opponent when he is in range to strike or grapple. Another option is to just push off him to regain your distance and put yourself outside his range.

 

[Tez3]

huh, i had never heard of it being prohibited in MT. i guess i could see it in the ammys since it could easily turn into an accidental spinning elbow!

in fact, i think that's what happened in a k-1 fight genki sudo was in. IIRC, he got disqualified for this:

click on the link above or the one that tez quoted, & you will see!

jf

We have some odd MT rules here, Britsh MT rules, European MT rules, full MT rules etc. I don't know the difference tbh, hopefully someone from here will post up?
In KB though sometimes spinning backfists will be allowed if agreed by both fighters.

 

[bowser666]

Spinning techniques are useful. Every additional bit to your MArtial Arsenal helps. Just don't make it your bread and butter. The more you knwo and master the better off you are. Just be careful when using them against a experience MA-ist. If you telegraph too much be prepared to be swept everytime !

 

[KP.]

From the Art side of Martial Arts, if spinning techniques are part of the heritage of your style, then they are absolutely essential, and failure to master them is a failure to master your art.

If they are not part of your art's heritage, then learning them is a nice way to broaden your skill set, but not learning them hardly hurts you as an artist.

 

[geezer]

From the Art side of Martial Arts, if spinning techniques are part of the heritage of your style, then they are absolutely essential, and failure to master them is a failure to master your art.

If they are not part of your art's heritage, then learning them is a nice way to broaden your skill set, but not learning them hardly hurts you as an artist.

Agreed. Most martial arts present an integrated way of moving. That is to say that they are much more than a random collection of techniques. The movements should work together like parts of a machine.

So by this measure, spinning techniques will fit very well with certain systems, and not well at all with others. However, it never hurts to study and understand movements that others may use against you....whether or not they fit the method you use.

On the other hand, with my stiff old joints, I'd probably do myself more harm than good if I tried acrobatic spinning high kicks. My favorite spinning kick is a side or back kick to the knee as I'm spinning around to run away!

 

[KempoGuy06]

we worked on them again last night. i liked them a lot until...i got my check split open by a spinning back kick...lol....thats life in the MAs

B