Wing Woo Gar
Senior Master
When we got invited to the advanced class, the rule was that you still had to attend the beginning class before hand, so it really doubled up your workouts.
Sparring with advanced?
- Thread starter Goldleaf
- Start date
Fungus
Black Belt
In our class there is a standard rule of 1 year, as they encourage us to start fighting early, to get used to it, but exceptions can be make by shihans. For example if you 5 years of experience with other styles, thai boxing or another karate style and join kyokushin, you can ask for permission to join earlier.
Experience with fighting is more important than mastering certain katas or what belt you have. As we often regularly use techniques in kumite, that are above our formal ranks, developing fighting skill and ranking your belt are kind of two independent things. Those higher kyu ranks that don't regularly attend fighting unless when told to, still have a hard time against lower ranks that focus more on figthing.
windwalker099
2nd Black Belt
Would not agree.
Competitors, compete, they practice with others of like minds, skill sets ect. to compete.
The teachers, I knew in CMA. In most cases, the classes were separate for very valid reasons.
For competitors what was taught was geared towards competition.
Those who fight don't really need to know. much....
They do have to have a lot of ring time, engaging with others ... most doing so enjoy it.
Those looking for other things, among them combative skill sets, part of the package not the whole package.
To combine the classes a disservice to those getting ready to fight.
I’ve trained and sparred in a lot of dojos and gyms.
I can only think of a couple where anyone would sometimes take advantage of weaker, less talented or less experienced fighters. But not dangerously so.
But if you went back you were accepted and taken under wing.
I can only think of a couple where anyone would sometimes take advantage of weaker, less talented or less experienced fighters. But not dangerously so.
But if you went back you were accepted and taken under wing.
I used sparring as part of the warm up at the beginner of the class. Divide students into 2 circles, 1 inside circle and 1 outside circle. The person in inside circle spar with the person in outside circle. After 2 minutes, the inside circle rotates. They then spar with different opponent.
This way the class are truly mixed together with different skill levels.
windwalker099
2nd Black Belt
Was referring to those training for competition, in sanda or mma. Different type of training
What are those "other things"?
windwalker099
2nd Black Belt
Anything not related to competition...
Commercial gyms a little bit different from others directed towards a specific mindset..
Of the teachers I've known having commercial gyms their syllabus was quite broad.
Other teacher's non commercial, their focus was very narrow.
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Suh as ... ?
Anything not related to competition...
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Not really. We did a version of that with shark tanks
windwalker099
2nd Black Belt
Your experience
IME
In China and other places the training was split up.
between those into sanda, mma ect ,others not into the
competitive aspects more concerned about learning the style.
Similar to those who practice what's called competitive push hands... entering into competition,
different from those learning along the traditional lines of practice.
Why would it not be ?
This is exactly my question. How can you learn a style without testing what you have learned?
You can't test any skill without partner. When you try to test your skill (such as a side kick), your opponent tries not to let your skill work (such as block your side kick), that's "competition" by definition.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Ok. There is a whole idea about timing and task based games and being a bit ruthlessly creative in your training.Your experience
IME
In China and other places the training was split up.
between those into sanda, mma ect ,others not into the
competitive aspects more concerned about learning the style.
Similar to those who practice what's called competitive push hands... entering into competition,
different from those learning along the traditional lines of practice.
Why would it not be ?
So you need to push outside your comfort zone and try stuff to develop depth. You can't just have an A game at a certain level. Because you will come across someone who will naturally defend that and you will have nowhere to go.
But if you constantly train with killers you will either never get given an oportunity to do that or you will pay too high a price if you do. Because you are always bad at doing new stuff.
So you train with people who are not as good. And that gives you the gaps to attempt your slicker moves in real time.
And it also breeds good culture in the gym. Because sparring partners are worth more. Even if they are not fantastic. The important thing is they are there.
And of course they get better from that experience and you get better sparring partners. Adding more depth to the gym.
And my experience is pretty significant. As we have trained some successful guys this way. In a gym that is pretty remote and not very big.
We recently had a guy win gold in world's. In BJJ.
For a gym from remote Australia with about 50 people who train in it.
And yes he retrains in the class with everyone else. Rolls with everyone exept for a short period leading up where he didn't want to get elbowed in the face.
This is why I don't understand how one can develop any MA skill without testing against people in different systems. When you do that, that's "competition".
If you want to develop MA skill, but you don't want competition, what will you do?
windwalker099
2nd Black Belt
And ?
Is your gym a BJJ gym?
Many of those in competitive events, sanda, mma, alter their training and methods according to the event . The training is different.
There are people, not competitors who would prefer practicing the method/style the teachers or the gym taught. Why some teachers or gyms have separated the training according to the needs and focus of those trained.
Join with others seeking to improve their skills.
outside of competitive events.
Those I’ve met never thought of it as competition.
In the 70s many CMA people never seemed to use their style as trained. They modified what they did as needed to compete . Often talked about by those outside CMA . Pointing out the fact it didn’t look like what was practiced.
Modified so much, it didn’t really reflect the style they trained in anymore. For some it may not be an issue, for others it may.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
We are a MMA gym and we are fairly successful at every rule set we attempt.
And we use this one consistent method to achieve that.
so.
We sent a guy over from a 50 odd person gym who trained with everyone. Who took classes like everyone else (who absolutely did supplemental training on his own)
To LA to compete with the biggest most specialised gyms. Competition focused monster gyms.
And he beat them.
He trained with hobbiests.
He trained with MMA guys looking to better their system.
He trained with self defence guys.
He trained with his own wife and 12 year old kid.
All of our competitors do this. And they all hold their own in competitions.
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windwalker099
2nd Black Belt
Other teachers and gyms do what works for them. For those into competition outside of the style taught, they have separate classes or training. .
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drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
I am suggesting that this method produces consistent results. And elite martial artists over multiple disciplines.
If other gyms want to present their case for their method. They are welcome to do so.
windwalker099
2nd Black Belt
You listed one , BJJ
Any in boxing , wrestling, fencing ect?
Your gym teaches MMA. It would stand to reason that its success is measured in competition.
For others their focus is different. They offer training for those interested in MMA or sanda as a side line to their main focus preserving the style.
They had different classes for those into competition outside the main style.
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SirKicksAlot
Yellow Belt
I would go check out the sparring nights first to see what I was getting into. Then I would ask around and see if anyone would be willing to easy spar with me as a beginner because some places love to just beat the sh!t out of newbies; very toxic and unnecessary. If you can find someone that will pull their punches at first and ease you into it, then great! I don't think people should jump into the ring the first time and go balls to the wall.
