Dealing with fast jabs

[Ivan]

Hello Ivan
This is Terrible Tim Witherspoon 2X Heavyweight Champion of the world. Ivan you simply ran into a "Gate Keeper" these are the people that weed out those who can get to the next level in boxing. You are doing the right in trying to find a solution. That is exactly what I did. When I first started boxing those gate keepers were destroying me. The coach I had wasn't very good and I really didn't have a solution to fighters a level above me. I went to another coach, and we focused heavily on defense. You got to get your defense down and use these gate keepers to experiment on. They will pressure test everything you learn. In this video below, I am working with a young man who is struggling, and he came to me for help. So, I think what I am teaching him will benefit you greatly. Watch my old fights and pay attention to how I move around with the Philly Shell. Larry Holmes, who was an amazing jabber, had a really hard time with me because of my defense. I was also a sparring partner for Ali and you want to talk about fighting a gate keeper, well he was about as high level as you can get!

Hi, it's awesome to have you here giving me advice and participating in this forum in general. I actually came across your channel and fights yesterday as I was doing online research on the issues I had sparring. I subscribed and found a lot of your Philly-shell advice interesting and useful, especially as it was the stance I gravitated towards when I was younger and that I sometimes still use to this day. It feels odd to be talking to one of the boxers from my favorite era and weight class in boxing.

As per your advice, I watched your fight with Larry Holmes with interest, and I definitely saw how you dealt with the range using some really tight defense. It was also interesting to see you sneak the right cross after rolling underneath a jab. I think I first saw that in the third round. It definitely gave me some ideas as I am not new to ducking and weaving from punches, so I think if I just improve my reaction speed and perception of these situations I will be able to deal with opponents like this in the future. Thank you for the help.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Hello Ivan
This is Terrible Tim Witherspoon 2X Heavyweight Champion of the world. Ivan you simply ran into a "Gate Keeper" these are the people that weed out those who can get to the next level in boxing. You are doing the right in trying to find a solution. That is exactly what I did. When I first started boxing those gate keepers were destroying me. The coach I had wasn't very good and I really didn't have a solution to fighters a level above me. I went to another coach, and we focused heavily on defense. You got to get your defense down and use these gate keepers to experiment on. They will pressure test everything you learn. In this video below, I am working with a young man who is struggling, and he came to me for help. So, I think what I am teaching him will benefit you greatly. Watch my old fights and pay attention to how I move around with the Philly Shell. Larry Holmes, who was an amazing jabber, had a really hard time with me because of my defense. I was also a sparring partner for Ali and you want to talk about fighting a gate keeper, well he was about as high level as you can get!

I thought that gym looked familiar. I used one of the your videos in here once. I can't remember what the topic was, but it's one of the few videos that are out there that look like learning. I always like seeing people go through the learning process.

Twist, Twist, Twist. A lot of what you say in this video and other videos are things I've hear from my teacher learning how to just turn vs winding up and doing extra stuff for the turn. That was one of the most difficult things for me it. When I was learning it always felt weak, until I built up my core and learn to generate that power from the twist.

I wish Kung fu had some "Gate Keepers" lol

 

[Terrible Tim Witherspoon]

I thought that gym looked familiar. I used one of the your videos in here once. I can't remember what the topic was, but it's one of the few videos that are out there that look like learning. I always like seeing people go through the learning process.

Twist, Twist, Twist. A lot of what you say in this video and other videos are things I've hear from my teacher learning how to just turn vs winding up and doing extra stuff for the turn. That was one of the most difficult things for me it. When I was learning it always felt weak, until I built up my core and learn to generate that power from the twist.

I wish Kung fu had some "Gate Keepers" lol

Please share my videos!!! I need more subs lol Kung Fu is evolving, and they have a lot of offer but need to pressure test their moves. I even admired a move I saw on a Wing Chun video

 

[drop bear]

Please share my videos!!! I need more subs lol Kung Fu is evolving, and they have a lot of offer but need to pressure test their moves. I even admired a move I saw on a Wing Chun video

You get your hands crossed and trapped though?

Which is kind of kung fu's whole jam.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You get your hands crossed and trapped though?

Which is kind of kung fu's whole jam.

The WC Bong Shou across the body can give your opponent a chance to pull your upper arm to jam your downward arm.

A left foot sweep to the leading right leg plus a left arm pulling to the left can be an effortless take down.

 

[Terrible Tim Witherspoon]

You get your hands crossed and trapped though?

Which is kind of kung fu's whole jam.

Do you mean trapping or literally trapped? I am making a video right now showing me in my career using Bong Sao. Then you can see the intention and the flow of the Philly Shell. What I do is called the Philly Shell in boxing and a piece of that shell is called Bong Sao in Wing Chun. The key is to develop your Bong Sao with someone trying to take your head off lol I will post the video here when I am done

 

[Terrible Tim Witherspoon]

The WC Bong Shou across the body can give your opponent a chance to pull your upper arm to jam your downward arm.

A left foot sweep to the leading right leg plus a left arm pulling to the left can be an effortless take down.

View attachment 27736

View attachment 27737

Very interesting

 

[JowGaWolf]

Please share my videos!!! I need more subs lol Kung Fu is evolving, and they have a lot of offer but need to pressure test their moves. I even admired a move I saw on a Wing Chun video

Your observation is correct for the perspective that you are viewing it from. If you were to use it like a defense then that's the path that you would take. How I learned martial arts is that there is always a secondary guard even when attacking and usually it's the hand as you showed. Fighting is fighting and openings that exist in boxing would be the same openings I would have to deal with as being a kung fu practitioner.

Think of Kung Fu as "Dirty Fighting" and you'll find some more uses for that elbow. The same guard that you showed is the same motion I would use if I wanted to smash my elbow into an incoming jab. I had my lead hand forward. I would use it to parry / guide the jab into my elbow.

The technique you showed can be used as offensive or defensive. You showed the defensive use. As far as Wing Chun goes. I don't know the purpose of that movement, but in Jow Ga kung fu. We would use that same movement for offense and defense.

Your Philly Guard position with the elbow on top of the glove is my ending position for an elbow strike. The elbow has to be on top of the gloves so I can pop it out against incoming body punches. That way I can damage my opponent's hand without getting caught lol. Like I said kung fu is like dirty boxing lol. The only way to get good power for that pop is to have the elbow on top of the glove. If it sits in front of the glove then I've just taken that other arm out of action by trapping it. If I needed to move that arm out then I couldn't because my elbow is in front of my fist pinning that arm against my arm. It's a good way to get KO.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Do you mean trapping or literally trapped? I am making a video right now showing me in my career using Bong Sao. Then you can see the intention and the flow of the Philly Shell. What I do is called the Philly Shell in boxing and a piece of that shell is called Bong Sao in Wing Chun. The key is to develop your Bong Sao with someone trying to take your head off lol I will post the video here when I am done

In all honesty you probably don't have to spar that hard before a technique or a approach fails. BS doesn't last long when a skilled opponent is attacking. There's only 2 path. Either the technique is flawed or the person's understanding of the technique is flawed. With kung fu it's a lot of the second.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The key is to develop your Bong Sao with someone trying to take your head off

Have you considered to use "45 degree upward Bong Shou" to deal with your opponent's hook punch?

In theory, one can use straight punch to deal with circular punch. But the curved Bong Shou is better than the straight punch that one can deflect his opponent's hook punch away from his head. The Bong Shou can then turn into an overhand.

 

[Terrible Tim Witherspoon]

Hi, it's awesome to have you here giving me advice and participating in this forum in general. I actually came across your channel and fights yesterday as I was doing online research on the issues I had sparring. I subscribed and found a lot of your Philly-shell advice interesting and useful, especially as it was the stance I gravitated towards when I was younger and that I sometimes still use to this day. It feels odd to be talking to one of the boxers from my favorite era and weight class in boxing.

As per your advice, I watched your fight with Larry Holmes with interest, and I definitely saw how you dealt with the range using some really tight defense. It was also interesting to see you sneak the right cross after rolling underneath a jab. I think I first saw that in the third round. It definitely gave me some ideas as I am not new to ducking and weaving from punches, so I think if I just improve my reaction speed and perception of these situations I will be able to deal with opponents like this in the future. Thank you for the help.

Me showing my modified Bon Sao against one of the greatest jabbers in history! Interesting fact both Larry and I were sparring partners for Ali!

 

[Ivan]

Me showing my modified Bon Sao against one of the greatest jabbers in history! Interesting fact both Larry and I were sparring partners for Ali!

I think I can spot it a few time but I am not experienced with Kung Fu. Was Ali as fast as the legends say? What was he like?