Some Advice from a 7 Year Old

[auntlisa1103]

Reading through this entire thread, it really seems like some of you just don't like kids. Nothing wrong with this at all, as long as you aren't involved with any programs for kids.

I love kids. But I also see the benefit of the discipline and structure. I don’t believe young children understand the concept of “training” in martial arts in the same way that adults do, and I believe that’s okay. A 7 year old shouldn’t be expected to have the same goals, focus or attention span as an adult, but I do think they should be held to certain age appropriate expectations, whether they like/understand them at first blush or not.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Agree with you 100% there.

I still remember the day that I built my weight pulley, I attached a soft Karate belt at the end of that pulley, so it was easier to pull (compare to pull the rope). My MA teacher was living in my house at that time. When he saw that, he said I was like a rich family boy who tries to train MA (looking for comfort).

This might be the first time we've agreed.

This is a link to a Facebook video one of our moms took last night in our dojo. Her daughter, a newly promoted junior 2nd degree black belt, is teaching seisan. I'm in the background teaching naihanchi to another student, complete with some bunkai. Yes, touching is required to correct movements. But this demonstrates our teaching style.

https://fb.watch/nTAQ1Zq_Vs/?mibextid=K8Wfd2

Oh, and they did pushups first. Lol

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Muscle building will prevent a kid from growing tall. It's such a commonsense thing when I was a kid, and everybody knew that.

My point was 6-7 year girls can't do 1 pushup. Why assign 20??

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

It's not pointless.

You tell them "wider stance" and they stare at you like you grew antlers. "Put your feet further apart" gets more stares. Reach down, grab a foot, physically adjust. End of problem.



This isn't daycare. I hope they enjoy themselves, but fun isn't the reason for training.



We are a traditional Okinawan karate dojo. We are there to teach kids how to defend themselves in addition to learning an authentic karate style. The training also imparts self-discipline and helps instill the value of hard work. I'm not there to be a pal or a buddy. I'm there to be a positive adult role model, a decent person who cares about them and their future and wants to be a positive memory when they look back over the years; and if it should ever come to that, someone who helped give them the tools they needed to avoid fights or walk away from trouble or to take care of business if it were to come to that.

We're going to do pushups. Do them to the best of your ability, I tell the kids.

To clarify
- the 20 pushups is pointless if they can't do 1. That was my corollary - no point telling a 40 year old man to do an oversplit if he is nowhere near a regular split.
- No need to move the foot IMO. I say "put your foot here" and point to the spot.
- You can do the same drills with a smile or a frown. A smile will have people staying with the school more frequently than a frown. E.g., an advertisement for a kids' programme never has a picture of a master with a frown. It's always smiles.

Here is how I would like to start a class

 

[Bill Mattocks]

To clarify
- the 20 pushups is pointless if they can't do 1. That was my corollary - no point telling a 40 year old man to do an oversplit if he is nowhere near a regular split.

It's not pointless. The class does 20 pushups. Some can do more, some can do less. But they all do the best they can. The child who can only do one pushup becomes aware that they need to improve and should try their best to do so. They won't be chastised or punished for only doing one, but they'll be encouraged to improve.

- No need to move the foot IMO. I say "put your foot here" and point to the spot.

Nope. First, they won't do it, second, they won't position it properly. I want the foot where I want it, pointed the direction I want it pointed, and I'll place it there.

Watch the video I just posted in a previous reply today and you see me in the background, teaching Naihanchi kata one-on-one to a student. There's not much physical contact, but when I need to adjust an arm or a fist, I do it. The movements are meant to be precise, and 'close enough' is not acceptable.

- You can do the same drills with a smile or a frown. A smile will have people staying with the school more frequently than a frown. E.g., an advertisement for a kids' programme never has a picture of a master with a frown. It's always smiles.

I'm old and grumpy. I'm a volunteer, I don't get paid to smile. I'm there to help teach an art that might save their lives someday. It's not puppies and ice cream.

Here is how I would like to start a class

LOL.

 

[auntlisa1103]

My point was 6-7 year girls can't do 1 pushup. Why assign 20??

But you also can’t expect them to do push ups at 40 if they’ve never tried. 6-7 year olds can do the 6-7 year old version of a pushup. So you start them there and work on form, strength and stamina as time goes on. Don’t expect textbook perfection, but expect effort. As my dad was fond of saying, “Can’t never did anything”.

 

[Steve]

I love kids. But I also see the benefit of the discipline and structure. I don’t believe young children understand the concept of “training” in martial arts in the same way that adults do, and I believe that’s okay. A 7 year old shouldn’t be expected to have the same goals, focus or attention span as an adult, but I do think they should be held to certain age appropriate expectations, whether they like/understand them at first blush or not.

Age appropriate expectations are great. Totally agree. “Age appropriate” being the operative phrase.

 

[HighKick]

My point was 6-7 year girls can't do 1 pushup. Why assign 20??

Meh, most kids to sway back pushups. What matters is that they are making the effort.

 

[HighKick]

To clarify
- the 20 pushups is pointless if they can't do 1. That was my corollary - no point telling a 40 year old man to do an oversplit if he is nowhere near a regular split.
- No need to move the foot IMO. I say "put your foot here" and point to the spot.
- You can do the same drills with a smile or a frown. A smile will have people staying with the school more frequently than a frown. E.g., an advertisement for a kids' programme never has a picture of a master with a frown. It's always smiles.

Here is how I would like to start a class

So, never try to get to 20-pushups or a full split? You have to start somewhere.

 

[Oily Dragon]

To clarify
- the 20 pushups is pointless if they can't do 1.

As someone who tries (and often fails) to teach adults and kids to endure the Great Four Parallels Horse Stance, I agree with this message.

"Your form is great! Now don't move for 5 minutes..."

 

[auntlisa1103]

Meh, most kids to sway back pushups. What matters is that they are making the effort.

Exactly. At my school we have 8-10 year olds keeping up with the adults with burpees (a pushup followed by a vertical jump) traveling the length of the floor. Some of them think a pushup is to do a plank, drop their hips to the floor and then raise them to plank again. The point is the effort, not the proximity to perfection.

We are (all, regardless of age) also expected to do 10 pushups if we enter late. GM has had parents try to take responsibility for the late arrival to get their kid out of pushups, and he has none of it—get your child here on time, then. And if you left the driveway late because his duffel bag wasn’t together, that’s still his responsibility. He needs to learn to have his stuff ready.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

So, never try to get to 20-pushups or a full split? You have to start somewhere.

Yup, I'm saying start somewhere remotely achievable. Don't start 40 year olds on an oversplit...don't start a 6 year old girl at 20 pushups..

Anyway, I don't think I am convincing anyone, which is fine. My reason for my post was for the most part for people to be aware of why some kids may not like the class.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Watch the video I just posted in a previous reply today and you see me in the background, teaching Naihanchi kata one-on-one to a student. There's not much physical contact, but when I need to adjust an arm or a fist, I do it. The movements are meant to be precise, and 'close enough' is not acceptable.

Going astray a bit, I once saw a guy at the UFC gym looking pretty good on the heavy bag, then limping a bit to the water fountain.

I figured he was a competitor and took some leg kicks in training or a fight.

Nope.

He was asked to hand over his gold chains one day, he said no, and got into his fighting stance. Other guy shot him in the leg.

Ironically, he would have been better with no martial arts.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

don't start a 6 year old girl at 20 pushups..

I have never seen any class that teacher would ask students to do their homework during the class time. Why should a MA instructor ask his students to do push up during the MA class time?

When I was young, I joined in a YMCA Karate class once. The Karate instructor wanted us to do push up, sit up, running around the room. One day I asked that Karate instructor, "I come here to learn. I can do all of those at home by myself." He then told me that not everybody would do those at home.

Even today, I still think he was wrong, and I was right. I strongly believe one should go to school to learn and come home to train. But some people may believe that they should go to school to learn/train and come home to rest.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Going astray a bit, I once saw a guy at the UFC gym looking pretty good on the heavy bag, then limping a bit to the water fountain.

I figured he was a competitor and took some leg kicks in training or a fight.

Nope.

He was asked to hand over his gold chains one day, he said no, and got into his fighting stance. Other guy shot him in the leg.

Ironically, he would have been better with no martial arts.

Or perhaps he would have been better off if he hadn't felt the need to get into a fighting stance, thus announcing his intention to swing. If you're going to hit someone, just do it. Don't tell them first.

 

[screamingskull]

Or perhaps he would have been better off if he hadn't felt the need to get into a fighting stance, thus announcing his intention to swing. If you're going to hit someone, just do it. Don't tell them first.

no martial art can beat a bullet or are you faster?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

no martial art can beat a bullet or are you faster?

you can't beat a bullet, but you can beat the speed it takes someone to draw, aim and fire. Particularly if they have no idea a punch is coming.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Or perhaps he would have been better off if he hadn't felt the need to get into a fighting stance, thus announcing his intention to swing. If you're going to hit someone, just do it. Don't tell them first.

More like he assumed that the other gut didn't have a weapon. Sometimes people don't scan for weapons first. people who have weapons position themselves differently than those who don't have one. I'm assuming that running through the scenarios of attacker with weapon will help to be more aware of that posture. But then again if the person is training in a gym then they may not get that opportunity to train that type of self defense.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

I have never seen any class that teacher would ask students to do their homework during the class time. Why should a MA instructor ask his students to do push up during the MA class time?

My first club was a university club, with only about 10 students, all ~ 20 year old males.

The instructor told us after a couple of months:

"We only have 1 hour, and you guys know how to warm up on your own. Do it before class, then we will only spend a minute or two before starting on the drills".

I liked that!

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Or perhaps he would have been better off if he hadn't felt the need to get into a fighting stance, thus announcing his intention to swing. If you're going to hit someone, just do it. Don't tell them first.

He said his stance was for defence after the guy said a second time to give him the chains.

He also said "If the guy would have told me he had a gun, I would have given it to him!"

FYI he also said that what really ticked him off after he was shot was that a bunch of bystanders just stood there filming him on the ground bleeding profusely.

He had to yell at people to call 911 and for someone to help to try to stop the bleeding.