Gwai Lo Dan
3rd Black Belt
I generally agree, unless the feedback never gets to the business owner!
Some Advice from a 7 Year Old
- Thread starter Gwai Lo Dan
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Gwai Lo Dan
3rd Black Belt
Funny story - I once made a comment to the kids that it's normal for one side to feel better kicking than the other side, just like when you throw a ball.
One kid said he throws the same with both sides, so I asked him to show us, and he showed two (left and right) very bad throw motions.
I was talking to a mother afterwards, and she said, "yea, kids today don't throw balls, they play video games".
At that point I realised that TKD may be most important for just teaching general body awareness and coordination.
Muscle building will prevent a kid from growing tall. It's such a commonsense thing when I was a kid, and everybody knew that.
Oily Dragon
Senior Master
Well it's just not true, according to modern exercise science, like a lot of other "common sense" stuff from folk wisdom that turns out to be wrong.
Just like the martial arts people who say strength training makes people slower/less agile, but then would get smoked in any grappling encounter.
Even that Kenshindoryu/Zen Judo stuff that recently came up in the other thread. Some people buy that "form is more important than strength" BS, because they have literally never attempted to throw a strong person, and couldn't but can still perform a flawless ippon seionage. But we both know the ones who lift weights even moderately will throw better and harder, have better balance and rooting, endurance, etc.
One thing I've never seen? A shrimpy shuai Jiao dude. I don't think they exist in the wild
Learning the art form takes you only so far, there's still that part where you need to use muscle and not just assume physics will handle it all for you. The work is what matters.
And kids hate work.
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Adults weight training is different from kid's weight training. For a kid, he needs to grow tall and not to grow wide. IMO, weightlifting before 16 years old is not a good idea.
With this kind of perspective on learning martial arts, Daniel LaRusso wouldāve left Mr Miyagiās teaching after a few minutes of āwax on, wax offā and missed out on a whole new world of amazing experiences (and weādāve been spared the increasingly dire āCobra Kaiā series)! Any worthwhile endeavour will, by itās very nature, be challenging and at times be perceived as āunpleasantā. Iād suggest that this very aspect of the learning the MA is what makes them fulfilling and useful. This does not justify mental and physical abuse, of course, but being pushed out of oneās ācomfort zoneā is a useful resolve-forging experiences, the lack of which might account for our youngsterās lack of resilience and preoccupation with all sorts of nonsense that we see these days. I agree that a good teacher should be able to set appropriate modalities and levels of challenge, but Iām not sure the ācustomerā or their ownersā¦sorry āparentsā will be able to asses those parameters.
Amongst the most resilient and well adjusted people we have in society today, are members of the armed forces (and of course scientists
) . Was their training ācomfortableā and customer orientated? The adversity they endured and overcame is what makes them so great.Earl Weiss
Senior Master
>>>>>"Learners often express preferences about how they would like to receive information ā by reading, hearing or doing -............................
1. Neuroscientists say the idea doesn't make any sense
Letās clarify: the idea that some learners are primarily visual, auditory or kinaesthetic, and that learners learn in different ways because of how their brains work is incorrect, even though it originates in valid research..<<<"
Lots of issues with this article. Major error is, having dealt with someone with auditory processing issues and how to overcome them is that "Reading " is auditory processing since the Brain "Hears" the words as they are read. So, "Visual Learning" is not reading.
Next, the article goes on to say how it originates in Valid research.
""researchers found no correlation between the learning style assigned objectively through the questionnaire and how well learners did on visual or auditory tests."
Did they not even check kinesthetic learning? Did this only include learning non Physical actions?
Lastly, experience with sucesses using the different methods
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
See also this from one of the linked articles
>>
itās important to be clear about what exactly researchers are criticizing when they talk about the myth of learning styles. They arenāt saying there are no differences between students, or that tailored teaching approaches can never be helpful. There are plenty of individual differences between students, such as talent, background knowledge, and interest in the field, and researchers agree that teaching with these differences in mind can have a positive impact.
There is also evidence that using multiple teaching approaches together (such as words and pictures) tends to improve learning across the board, a phenomenon known as the multimedia effect. Again, researchers donāt take issue with this. <<<<
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
I submit that Daniel LaRusso was not 7 and could appreciate the reasons for some unpleasantness - until he couldn't and was about to leave until he received a more thorough explanation.
I worked as a University lecturer (Professor). When I first started teaching practical subjects like cadaveric dissection/anatomy and purely academic subjects (neuroscience) we enthusiastically embraced the ideas of visual/ auditor/ kinaesthetic learners and taught to those recommendations. As the years went by and educationalists continued their onward research, they suggested these modalities were too black and white (red/green/blue perhaps) since nobody was purely kinaesthetic or purely visual. Weāre all a little of all three and thus adjusting our styles of teaching to specific modalities was a waste of time.When I lectured I always spoke (auditor) had engaging visual slides with jokes and animations and colours and were applicable (a lot in neuroscience and in the dissection hall) had students to little physical tests and experiments like the tonic vibration reflex (which is really weird when you experience it) or holding your eyeballs still with a finger and observing the image before you disappear etc. I was an award-winning, popular lecture as voted by the students as a consequence.
Martial arts teachers should be inspiring and innovative too, not just upbeat, smiley and friendly, which is all I usually see in most dojo.
Martial arts teachers should be inspiring and innovative too, not just upbeat, smiley and friendly, which is all I usually see in most dojo.
Oily Dragon
Senior Master
Not according to what I've read. I can't find any medical or exercise literature that says weight lifting hurts vertical growth.
Can Weight Lifting Stunt Growth? Experts Explain
Here's what coaches say about the risks of weight lifting for tweens and teens.
Why would lifting weights inhibit height? If this was a actual thing, there should be plenty of evidence out there. I can't find any.
Oily Dragon
Senior Master
See the more I check this out, its considered a myth.
Things that stunt growth in kids are typically poor nutrition, diseases, spinal issues like scoliosis, and of course genetics.
Does weight training stunt growth? | Think Twice
sites.utexas.edu
Things that stunt growth in kids are typically poor nutrition, diseases, spinal issues like scoliosis, and of course genetics.
No it won't, no it's not, and "everybody" was wrong.
Oily Dragon
Senior Master
Not to pile on KFW, I was genuinely curious.
Apparently this is one of those long held, widespread beliefs that don't stand up to scrutiny.
I mean, I've heard a lot of doozies in my day from the health and fitness community, but I'd never heard this one before. So, I think it's good it came up for discussion.
All the jocks I went to high school with lifted and plenty grew to be tall. The volleyball and basketball players tended to be leaner but some of the football and soccer players were well over 6' and 200 lbs, and could move like greased lightning.
Does Lifting Weights Stunt Growth? What The Science Says
If you're a parent of a child under age 18, you might be wondering if the strength training workouts your child is doing at the gym or as part of a sports team is stunting their growth. While this concern seems legitimate, the good news is, your child does not have to quit lifting weights.
www.healthline.com
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I mean, other than the whole karate kid thing, this is all true. Though there's an element of the kid enjoying the activity that provides them with the internal motivation to overcome the challenges. Sometimes, you have to make it fun first. I played baseball as a kid. I was pretty good, too, for my age. But by the time I was like 11 or 12, they had me playing with kids who were 14 or 15. Not just younger, I was a lot smaller. I got destroyed. I guess in retrospect I could have overcome the challenge. But instead, I quit and never played again.
Amongst the most resilient and well adjusted people we have in society today, are members of the armed forces (and of course scientists
Wait. Veterans are among the most resilient and well-adjusted people in society? Tell me more about this. That seems wildly incongruent with what I've seen.
It's not pointless.
You tell them "wider stance" and they stare at you like you grew antlers. "Put your feet further apart" gets more stares. Reach down, grab a foot, physically adjust. End of problem.
This isn't daycare. I hope they enjoy themselves, but fun isn't the reason for training.
End of rant!
We are a traditional Okinawan karate dojo. We are there to teach kids how to defend themselves in addition to learning an authentic karate style. The training also imparts self-discipline and helps instill the value of hard work. I'm not there to be a pal or a buddy. I'm there to be a positive adult role model, a decent person who cares about them and their future and wants to be a positive memory when they look back over the years; and if it should ever come to that, someone who helped give them the tools they needed to avoid fights or walk away from trouble or to take care of business if it were to come to that.
We're going to do pushups. Do them to the best of your ability, I tell the kids.
Perhaps things are different in the UK, but I am skeptical.
auntlisa1103
Orange Belt
There is certainly something to be said for teaching certain things in an age appropriate way. There is also something to be said for following an instructorās directions just because they said so, whether you like it or not and whether you understand why or not. 3 months of class at 7 years old is not anywhere near enough time to put the pieces together of why things are done the way they are.
To paraphrase my GM regarding the military style of some of the discipline: this is a martial art. The word martial means military. This is self defense used by the military, sometimes to literally save their own lives. By extension, that means you have the potential to seriously harm or even kill others. Therefore there MUST be the discipline so that instructors can trust their students with these techniques. If you cannot be trusted to follow simple instructions like lining up, donāt touch that, whatever, then how can they trust you with a technique like a flying roundhouse to the back of someoneās head?
By the same token, there have been some cultural shifts since the old days in the Old Country that may mean more dialogue is needed between teachers and students regarding certain topics. Gone are the days when itās okay for an instructor to flatten a student who said āyesā instead of āyes sirāāwhich, according to lore, was common in the Korean military where the founder of my school was trained. Maybe in this day and age instructors should warn and/or ask permission to touch a student to fix a body position. When a child has trouble tying their belt on and asks me for help, I let them know that my brain wonāt do it backwards and ask permission to put my arms around their waist from behind, because thatās the only way I can do it. I know children who have been touched in class to adjust a technique, didnāt know that was going to happen, and partly due to a traumatic past, became anxious. Once they were prepared that thatās how the instructor teaches, they were fine. Maybe some awareness is needed. But I can vouch for needing more than words to help me fix a body position issue. Itās called priprioception. I routinely ask an instructor to show me what Iām doing thatās NOT what they want, so I can figure out what to change.
To paraphrase my GM regarding the military style of some of the discipline: this is a martial art. The word martial means military. This is self defense used by the military, sometimes to literally save their own lives. By extension, that means you have the potential to seriously harm or even kill others. Therefore there MUST be the discipline so that instructors can trust their students with these techniques. If you cannot be trusted to follow simple instructions like lining up, donāt touch that, whatever, then how can they trust you with a technique like a flying roundhouse to the back of someoneās head?
By the same token, there have been some cultural shifts since the old days in the Old Country that may mean more dialogue is needed between teachers and students regarding certain topics. Gone are the days when itās okay for an instructor to flatten a student who said āyesā instead of āyes sirāāwhich, according to lore, was common in the Korean military where the founder of my school was trained. Maybe in this day and age instructors should warn and/or ask permission to touch a student to fix a body position. When a child has trouble tying their belt on and asks me for help, I let them know that my brain wonāt do it backwards and ask permission to put my arms around their waist from behind, because thatās the only way I can do it. I know children who have been touched in class to adjust a technique, didnāt know that was going to happen, and partly due to a traumatic past, became anxious. Once they were prepared that thatās how the instructor teaches, they were fine. Maybe some awareness is needed. But I can vouch for needing more than words to help me fix a body position issue. Itās called priprioception. I routinely ask an instructor to show me what Iām doing thatās NOT what they want, so I can figure out what to change.
Agree with you 100% there.
I still remember the day that I built my weight pulley, I attached a soft Karate belt at the end of that pulley, so it was easier to pull (compare to pull the rope). My MA teacher was living in my house at that time. When he saw that, he said I was like a rich family boy who tries to train MA (looking for comfort).
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