SKK form applications

[RevIV]

sequence 2: after the kick punch combo is complete from 1, as you turn to the left. your left gaurd should be up (making it a block) cross strike to neck, left hammer to groin, right thrust punch chest level (which will hit the face since they are bent over in agonzing pain from the strike to the groin) finish with a left sweep as you trainsition yourself to sequence 3.

Last sequence i do the way GM Pesare does it, so i do not have a simo. back fist side kick - i have a neck break in there. cover it later.
Jesse

 

[DavidCC]

Seq 2
"Attack is over head club followed by right front kick.
Cross block upward to elbow immediately followed (no chamber) by left low block to parry kick and while attackers foot is still in the air deliver right punch on a downward 45 angle to body (bladder or groin) causing attacker to loose balance."

What happened to the arm with the club in it after you pulled your left away for the low block and your right away for the punch?

clubs are heavy and don't tend to hand in mid-air. swinging a heavy club with intent pulls the weight onto the right foot, so how could I even kick with it?

 

[JTKenpo]

Seq 2
"Attack is over head club followed by right front kick.
Cross block upward to elbow immediately followed (no chamber) by left low block to parry kick and while attackers foot is still in the air deliver right punch on a downward 45 angle to body (bladder or groin) causing attacker to loose balance."

What happened to the arm with the club in it after you pulled your left away for the low block and your right away for the punch?

clubs are heavy and don't tend to hand in mid-air. swinging a heavy club with intent pulls the weight onto the right foot, so how could I even kick with it?

Would love to hear your views on the sequence...two ways to disarm an attack by pain and by technique. This is a disarm by pain, hyperextend someones arm and lets see if they can keep their hand clenched. As for after the punch he will be on his butt. Again disagree agree I don't care but offer something of your own not just...

 

[JTKenpo]

sequence 2: step into the opponents center and drive cross"blocks" (they serve as a cover) upward into the throat (great if you have a wall behind them or are on the ground), then follow up strikes. or block an arm the rt hand controls around the wrist or foearm and the lt downward block /strike becomes a force that coupled with the action of the rt hand creates an arm bar...there needs to be an adjustment of the waist to help this arction.

marlon

Love this...the first time I heard this type of application with the cross blocks was from Prof. Ferriera's bunkai on his one pinion....smiled for days.

 

[RevIV]

Would love to hear your views on the sequence...two ways to disarm an attack by pain and by technique. This is a disarm by pain, hyperextend someones arm and lets see if they can keep their hand clenched. As for after the punch he will be on his butt. Again disagree agree I don't care but offer something of your own not just...

I agree, disagreeing is fine but then give your input. I cant handle the club then kick thing myself though. the club attacker would be to close to kick.
Jesse

 

[marlon]

sequence 5: against a left backfist followed by a right hook punch (just to keep it in the form, the principle is good in many different places. the double knives block the backfist, press the lt arm down slightlyand spear over tyhe rt hook punch deflecting it and locking up your opponent's arms. You need sensitivity to make this work ...not hard blocking.
respectfully,

marlon

 

[fnorfurfoot]

I agree, disagreeing is fine but then give your input. I cant handle the club then kick thing myself though. the club attacker would be to close to kick.
Jesse

We treat it as a right club/hammer strike/over-the-top punch followed by a left punch to the stomach. The overhead cross block for the first and the left downward block to the second. This will expose his ribs for the final front punch at the downward angle.

 

[RevIV]

We treat it as a right club/hammer strike/over-the-top punch followed by a left punch to the stomach. The overhead cross block for the first and the left downward block to the second. This will expose his ribs for the final front punch at the downward angle.

Never heard that bunkai all the way through, with a Left punch, i like it. There has been a constant flashback for me as to the way certain things were emphasized when i first learned the katas. It was the rule of moving and always turning with your gaurd up. So after the kick punch combo in the beginning of 1 kata it was always turn Left, with left gaurd up, then step forwards left cross block up. The reasoning for that constant gaurd was because you never knew when someone was going to throw that surprise haymaker. Using that thought, is how i transition to the cross block being a strike to the neck/face/temples (whichever), and use the gaurd as the initial block of a surprise haymaker.
Jesse

 

[JTKenpo]

I agree, disagreeing is fine but then give your input. I cant handle the club then kick thing myself though. the club attacker would be to close to kick.
Jesse

The reason I still see validity in this attack is reactionary positioning and varied timing. The cross block stops the club attack which forces the attacker to pull back grabbing his elbow. Since he intended on doing harm to me anyway he proceeds by kicking at me while still grabbing his elbow. The reactionary positioning of the strike to the elbow brings both his hands to his midsection and the varied timing allows for him to pull back and then attack again. I don't mean a long pause just enough for him to readjust. Not trying to convert you just explaining why I still see validity here. I think it also shows the difference between form and application. Using the application of the form looks very different then performing the kata without a partner.

 

[JTKenpo]

I also just wanted to quickly cover my definition of a club. Any inanimate object that can be weilded with one hand which does not have a point or edge. ie empty beer bottle (still intact), stick, wooden dowel, any sort of piping.

 

[JTKenpo]

I really enjoyed everyones view on 1 kata. Lets see if we can get the ball rolling on two kata. Again I am only putting down one basic application per sequence and leaving out any of the intricacies in the transitions from one sequence to the next so that we can all share our views.

Applications
2 Kata​

Sequence 1: Step back using opposite hand dropping palm into chicken wrist and follow up front kick.
Attack: cross side wrist grab
Grab is made to left hand, left foot steps back drawing left hand to chamber (turning attackers elbow up) executing right dropping palm to elbow. Track up the arm with chicken wrist to face and follow up front kick.
Sequence 2: Right side kick to 4:30, scoop, spear, knife to 1:30.
Attack: two attackers, one at 1:30 the other at 4:30
Execute combo #7 to 4:30 returning your kick to face attacker at 1:30. From right punch step back right executing a left open hand scooping block (dragon tail, waiters hand….) immediately flowing into a left spear to throat. Step in with right knife to temple
Sequence 3: see 1 kata or……use as hip throw
Left hand controls attackers right hand, right arm hooks under left armpit. The motion of drawing into cat is used to thrust hip in toward attacker throwing them over.
Sequence 4: chain punches
Left outward block to left punch exposes ribs for right punch
I actually see similarities between this sequence done as a whole and the AK technique Twirling Wings used against a rear choke. Basicly replace punches with roundhouse elbows.
Sequence 5: Back kick to 12 oclock, side kick to 9 oclock, step up to horse grab and punch…..
Self explanatory
More of a balance lesson to me, kicking in two different directions without putting your foot down.
Look forward to your views.JT

 

[DavidCC]

Would love to hear your views on the sequence...two ways to disarm an attack by pain and by technique. This is a disarm by pain, hyperextend someones arm and lets see if they can keep their hand clenched. As for after the punch he will be on his butt. Again disagree agree I don't care but offer something of your own not just...

Techcnially, I wasn't disagreeing, just asking questions where your description left out some details...

But if I were to offer something, I would say that the attack sequence you initially proposed (right overhead club/rigth kick) is not realistic becasue the swinging of a club with intent precludes the follow-up kick with the same side foot because of the weight distribution.

I would also offer my opinion that the idea of blocking at the elbow or tricep in order to cause a club disarm is dangerous because, should the hyperextension of the elblow actually happen, he will be releasing that heavy blunt object to continue its travel and that could take it right into your head. That is one of a handful of reasons I think that this is not a technique I would use even if it did mechanically work as you describe (which it may or may not, I am not sure - swinging a rattan stick yes, but try a brick, is the elbow aligned the same?).

 

[DavidCC]

I agree, disagreeing is fine but then give your input. I cant handle the club then kick thing myself though. the club attacker would be to close to kick.
Jesse

"kata 1 sequence 2" this is the bunkai we teach:
attacker punches to the face, block upwards with cross block, trapping the wrist and grabbing with the right hand. Pivot to your right as you draw the trapped right hand to your right hip and striking the attacker with left hammerfist to groin or bladder. Release trapped hand, pivot back to your left using left outward block to clear the arm, opening the front of the body for the punch to solar plexus.

 

[DavidCC]

The motion of drawing into cat is used to thrust hip in toward attacker throwing them over

While I do agree that some of the turns on the kata can be interpreted as throws, I'm not sure this is one of them. There is no indication in the form for the proper motion of the right hand after the strike to the neck (crossing the body coming up from under his arm). And much more importantly, drawing the left foot to the right does not produce any hip movement! Finally, after the knife hand to the neck, the right foot doesn't move, you pivot on it, so again, there is no indication of any of the proper mechanics of a throw in this particular turn. now, the turns for attackers 4 and 7 in pinan 1 & 2 (assuming you do them similar to ours).. now there's a good throw.

Mostly the rest of what you wrote is also how we do it. Slightly different application on the opening, sounds interesting. Somebody once pointd out to me that the first few moves of K2 are defending against the first few moves of K1. It's true! Upwards crane wrist to block punches.

 

[JTKenpo]

I was originally taught the same about the openings of 1 and 2 kata, I point it out now and then I just don't see much merit in it. Again, I offered the throws as discussion points. When doing a hip throw over your right hip yes the intitial movement is with your right foot to align your body correctly but the second movement is sliding your left foot in, which is where I see the similarity in this motion. Thanks for your input.

 

[JTKenpo]

"kata 1 sequence 2" this is the bunkai we teach:
attacker punches to the face, block upwards with cross block, trapping the wrist and grabbing with the right hand. Pivot to your right as you draw the trapped right hand to your right hip and striking the attacker with left hammerfist to groin or bladder. Release trapped hand, pivot back to your left using left outward block to clear the arm, opening the front of the body for the punch to solar plexus.

Left outward block in 1 kata? It's in Swift tigers that way but I have never seen it in 1 kata.

 

[JTKenpo]

Sorry swift tigers is lt outward block then downward block.

 

[DavidCC]

Left outward block in 1 kata? It's in Swift tigers that way but I have never seen it in 1 kata.

Our versions of the kata series and pinan series are different in more than one sequence.

Our kata 1 starts likes this:

-left kick (to left half moon), right punch
-right kick (to rt hm), left punch
-turn CCW to 4:30, drawing to left cat facing 4:30 w/ cup&saucer right
-step out to left half moon facing 4:30 executing overhead xblock, then left downward block (right to elbow position), the left outward block with right thrust punch
-pivot CW to face 12...

 

[JTKenpo]

Very cool, I've never seen that version.

 

[RevIV]

Sorry swift tigers is lt outward block then downward block.

Maybe we are talking about a different part, but your first turn towards 6'oclock is an upward cross block (forward lean stance) downward block (back lean stance) the lean back forwards with an outward Lt knife hand block, rt thrust punch.
Jesse