Skipping rank - that big a deal?

[Carol]

The Kukkiwon doesn't allow for a shortened time to the next promotion in this case.

Ahhhh.......this makes more sense to me now! I have seen people personally that were at a given grade for too long through no real fault of their own, and senior instructors accelerated the TIG required for the next promotion so the student still spends some time in each rank but basically ends up the same place as a skip dan would. That being said....with such practices, skip dans are much less frequent, so when they do occur it seems to raise eyebrows and give the impression that the dan student is indeed rushing through his or her belt levels...especially if the person skips more than 1 dan grade.

It never even occurred to me that this wouldn't be an option for your system. I appreciate the input and hearing your story.

(belated) Congrats on your 5th by the way :asian:

 

[Kong Soo Do]

He wasn't speaking about your situation, but rather a situation that has developed specifically within hapkido.

But Glenn, it was a judgmental statement based upon an arbitrary standard. And worse, it was a blanket statement that doesn't take into account the individual(s). Either someone knows, and can demonstrate the material for a specific grade, or they can't. If someone can demonstrate proficiency or indeed mastery of material that say, a 4th Dan in Hapkido can demonstrate...then who cares if they have a pieces of paper from 1-3rd Dan? It is only a number and is absolutely NOT indicative of actual mastery or skill level. What can be demonstrated IS indicative of mastery or skill level.

Hapkido is such a rich and deep art.

But Glenn, there are people here in this forum that would say the very same thing about TKD. And they'd have good reason to do so. We can't judge which is 'deeper' or 'richer' as that is a personal thing to the practitioner of the art in question.

t really is a shame that so few truly "get it". And one of the reasons why so few truly get it was the topic which GM Myung and I were discussing when he made his comments about skip dan.

'Getting it' is in no way tied to a number or how many pieces of paper a practitioner has accumulated or whether the pieces of paper are in numerical order. 'Getting it' is something that is demonstrated, not hung on the wall or around the waist.

With respect.

 

[puunui]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I will say that you are not discussing my opinion, but rather GM Myung's. If you wish to characterize his opinion in the fashion that you have, that is your business. Feel free to make more comments about GM Myung if you are so inclined. Personally, I just try to listen intently and understand the basis of his perspective, which is far higher and greater than mine. There is a Korean saying, "he has eaten more salt than I have eaten rice." That is how I feel when I attempt to compare my Hapkido with GM Myung's.

 

[Cyriacus]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I will say that you are not discussing my opinion, but rather GM Myung's. If you wish to characterize his opinion in the fashion that you have, that is your business. Feel free to make more comments about GM Myung if you are so inclined. Personally, I just try to listen intently and understand the basis of his perspective, which is far higher and greater than mine. There is a Korean saying, "he has eaten more salt than I have eaten rice." That is how I feel when I attempt to compare my Hapkido with GM Myung's.

B-b-but, doesnt too much Salt screw with Your Kidneys?

In all seriousness, I perhaps approve of You having faith in the more Experienced. Even if there are some flaws to it, or even if You have Reservations, sometimes it pays to have faith in it until Youre in a better place from which to address it.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Thank you Glenn. And I completely agree. I would also suggest that we need to take a look at opinions to see the level of validity, particularly in context with the topic at hand.

I will say that you are not discussing my opinion, but rather GM Myung's.

Ah, based upon your comments in the Hapkido thread that this originally came up, I felt you were in agreement with GM Myung in regards to skipped rank. If you are not in agreement with him then I'd like to hear your postition on skipped rank.

Thank you.

 

[andyjeffries]

I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that your opinion differs from GM Myung's.

I'll take your word for it. I can only go on the snippet posted and worded in those terms and in just that limited quote I disagree

I would be interested in a fuller version of GM Myung's opinion and more details on the context of the discussion

He wasn't speaking about your situation, but rather a situation that has developed specifically within hapkido. Hapkido is such a rich and deep art. It really is a shame that so few truly "get it". And one of the reasons why so few truly get it was the topic which GM Myung and I were discussing when he made his comments about skip dan.

It's this that has me interested more fully on the rest of the discussion. Can someone post a link to the Hapkido thread so I can read more about it there (although I'll definitely be a lurker in that forum, I didn't do much Hapkido so have nothing to add in that forum).

 

[andyjeffries]

It never even occurred to me that this wouldn't be an option for your system. I appreciate the input and hearing your story.

The Kukkiwon has very codified rules on time in grade requirements and minimum age requirements for each grade. Thanks for your thanks

(belated) Congrats on your 5th by the way :asian:

And thank you for that too...

 

[andyjeffries]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I will say that you are not discussing my opinion, but rather GM Myung's.

And apparently only a small part of the opinion.

There is a Korean saying, "he has eaten more salt than I have eaten rice."

That's a very nice saying.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Hi Andy. That thread is no longer in the Hapkido section, it was moved to the Great Debate section. Here is the link;

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...-after-Founder-GM-Kwang-Sik-Myung-Passed-Away

 

[puunui]

In all seriousness, I perhaps approve of You having faith in the more Experienced. Even if there are some flaws to it, or even if You have Reservations, sometimes it pays to have faith in it until Youre in a better place from which to address it.

What I have always done is seek out the very best, and then learn from them. It is difficult and a waste of everyone's time if you are constantly second guessing and/or questioning in a disrespectful manner (even if it is an internal dialog with yourself) your chosen teachers and mentors. I try to seek out founder types and first generation pioneer types, the leaders of their acknowledged styles, as much as possible. Water that is closest to the source is the cleanest and clearest. I find that practitioners of this caliber have a very different perspective and mindset from your typical instructor whose lineage is farther downstream.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

What I have always done is seek out the very best, and then learn from them.

This sounds like a very wise thing to do Glenn, and I'm glad that you've found yourself in a position to accomplish this.

It is difficult and a waste of everyone's time if you are constantly second guessing and/or questioning in a disrespectful manner (even if it is an internal dialog with yourself) your chosen teachers and mentors.

To clarify, I don't think anyone has ever suggested second guessing and/or questioning a teacher or mentor in a disrespectful manner. That doesn't mean that you can't request a clarification or seek additional or deeper input from them. Indeed, a good teacher would/should desire you to be able to think on your own. This shows the proper mindset to get the very most out of your art(s). Anyone can blindly follow. That isn't growth, that is just learning by rote.

I find that practitioners of this caliber have a very different perspective and mindset from your typical instructor whose lineage is farther downstream.

That 'sounds' good, but again is making a very generalized and sweeping statement. Perspectives/mindsets are relative to the age the individual lived in, their goals and desires and the training environment in general. Even these 'founders' were downstream from someone else farther in the past. So in essense, new streams are being created, old streams can and do circle back and some streams come to an end.

As stated, questions are normal, healthy responses to those seekers in any walk of life. I would still like to hear your own view on skipping rank as derived from your own experience(s).

With respect.

 

[puunui]

And apparently only a small part of the opinion.

Apparently.

That's a very nice saying.

I first heard it mentioned by a senior of my first hapkido teacher. The senior was one of GM MYUNG Jae Nam's first students when GM Myung opened his first dojang in Incheon. He might be the most senior in the IHF now.