Sifu is pissed off.

[Tames D]

My apologies to Tez and Ironbear. I didn't realize how bad my attitude got.
On another note, this thread reminds me of a Filibuster

 

[Tez3]

Damm that must be really stupid if that's the worst you've read considering all of his posts on here

No, it's just the most direct I can think I can get away with here.

 

[ShawnP]

I don't understand, he could have easily destroyed the fool. Why give him the luxury of getting away with that?

that depends on how you look at things Ironbear. if a poor homeless person walked up to you on the street, pulled out a knife and said give me a dollar for a burger, would you beat the ever lovin hell out of him or just give him the damn dollar? there was nothing to prove, nothing worth defending and i bet he looks at that guy as just that, a fool, not worthy of fighting with over some sneakers. one thing people here are forgetting as well, there is much more to MAs than learning techniques, forms, weapons, defense...there is a mental side to MAs. Learn to grow "Mentally" not just "Physically" like the way you carry yourself, speak to others, treat others. this is an area of MAs im quite familiar with because i too have trouble in this area of life. i dont know your family background or your upbringing but i feel this may have some thing to do with how you are. your not a bad guy you just make bad decisions and need to learn to make good ones and id bet that Uncle of yours can teach you a thing or 2 about respect. i also have an Uncle who is an abusive OCD control freak and takes pokes at me every chance he gets but as much as he pisses me off, insults me, and his favorite thing to do, stab me with knives, i wont strike him because i understand him and accept him for who he is, i learn from him every day and i tell him that when i can because i know he doesnt do these things to "hurt me" but to teach me humility and lashing out is wrong (which is why i live in his house at this time) i was/am you in a lot of ways but i am learning to change the way i look at the world and the people in it. So i say dont stop training but in fact go get more training, the correct training that your missing, the "Mental" side of your training to learn to deal with morons who want nothing more but to start trouble and suck you into it, the over bearing OCD abusive Uncles, and most importantly YOU. Go ask your Sifu if he can help with this or if he knows any avenues for you look into, a counselor or a social worker, some thing or someone who can help you on that path.
i will tell you my avenue was AA/NA/GA anonymous. no i was not nor am i an alcoholic, drug addict, or gambler but my best friend and father figure/mentor was and i would attend meetings with him regularly and i learned quite a bit about myself and others out on the streets. Im not saying this is an avenue for you personally but it put me on the path to realizing i had issues to deal with and still do, and im sure i will have some thing to better about myself until i die and i feel so does the rest of the human race. Maybe a religion would work for you, or a specific way of life, a B.I.G. Brother, YMCA, or some thing but i really wish you the best in finding that path and growing "Mentally"
apologies in advance if i have offended anyone or over stepped my bounds here.

 

[Juany118]

that depends on how you look at things Ironbear. if a poor homeless person walked up to you on the street, pulled out a knife and said give me a dollar for a burger, would you beat the ever lovin hell out of him or just give him the damn dollar? there was nothing to prove, nothing worth defending and i bet he looks at that guy as just that, a fool, not worthy of fighting with over some sneakers. one thing people here are forgetting as well, there is much more to MAs than learning techniques, forms, weapons, defense...there is a mental side to MAs. Learn to grow "Mentally" not just "Physically" like the way you carry yourself, speak to others, treat others. this is an area of MAs im quite familiar with because i too have trouble in this area of life. i dont know your family background or your upbringing but i feel this may have some thing to do with how you are. your not a bad guy you just make bad decisions and need to learn to make good ones and id bet that Uncle of yours can teach you a thing or 2 about respect. i also have an Uncle who is an abusive OCD control freak and takes pokes at me every chance he gets but as much as he pisses me off, insults me, and his favorite thing to do, stab me with knives, i wont strike him because i understand him and accept him for who he is, i learn from him every day and i tell him that when i can because i know he doesnt do these things to "hurt me" but to teach me humility and lashing out is wrong (which is why i live in his house at this time) i was/am you in a lot of ways but i am learning to change the way i look at the world and the people in it. So i say dont stop training but in fact go get more training, the correct training that your missing, the "Mental" side of your training to learn to deal with morons who want nothing more but to start trouble and suck you into it, the over bearing OCD abusive Uncles, and most importantly YOU. Go ask your Sifu if he can help with this or if he knows any avenues for you look into, a counselor or a social worker, some thing or someone who can help you on that path.
i will tell you my avenue was AA/NA/GA anonymous. no i was not nor am i an alcoholic, drug addict, or gambler but my best friend and father figure/mentor was and i would attend meetings with him regularly and i learned quite a bit about myself and others out on the streets. Im not saying this is an avenue for you personally but it put me on the path to realizing i had issues to deal with and still do, and im sure i will have some thing to better about myself until i die and i feel so does the rest of the human race. Maybe a religion would work for you, or a specific way of life, a B.I.G. Brother, YMCA, or some thing but i really wish you the best in finding that path and growing "Mentally"
apologies in advance if i have offended anyone or over stepped my bounds here.

I have to agree with this. There is a reason my first Martial Art out of the army was not me returning to European style fencing but Aikido. I wanted to be a Cop, and between pre-Army and then Military training as a Scout I had a problem. I was always the skinny "artsy kid" in High School so had more than a little bullying.

I dealt with the bullying like a fictional character named "Ender Wiggins". I ignored words, tried to avoid fights but if a bully cornered me and wanted to beat me to prove a point I would use the nearest hard object as a weapon; spine of a text book, chair, whatever to beat him in such a way that I won all future fights because the bully would never try it again. I dropped out of college in patriotic fervor created by GW 1 and now I had that attitude along with the aggression and skill set of a Cavalry Scout. NOT a good combination for a cop imo.

So I looked around and found Aikido. The instructor was VERY big on Zen Meditation, and the Meditation along with the Aikido techniques themselves, learning to go with the flow not just while being attacked but while attacking so a throw or wrist lock didn't break something, all slowly did two things.
1. Got the aggression under control because the mindfulness of the meditation let me see how it can control you, forcing you to attack when you can avoid and make it so you resist another's energy when the best way to avoid injury is to flow with their energy.

2. It also let me see that my time in the military and continuing in MA meant I could be confident enough in myself that whenever I was forced to fight I did not always have to default to the "nuclear" option to prevent future conflicts.

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Now I don't study Aikido formally now, just practice some of their techniques, but I credit Aikido for in some ways helping me with the more "direct" arts I study now, WC and Kali.

 

[Flying Crane]

I like to think that the mental side is simply part of being a good human, and has no real connection to martial arts. I know a lot of people like to see that connection, but I think it's actually bigger than that, and more simple.

Just be a good person and do the right thing.

 

[Juany118]

I like to think that the mental side is simply part of being a good human, and has no real connection to martial arts. I know a lot of people like to see that connection, but I think it's actually bigger than that, and more simple.

Just be a good person and do the right thing.

The thing is though it's not about being good or bad. The nicest guy on the face of the planet can have an unhealthy response to aggression, or lack the confidence to defend themselves at all. This imo is where martial arts comes in.

Martial arts can help build confidence and also help provide control in aggressive situations. Often an overreaction in terms of force in a self defense encounter occurs because the person only has one speed, thanks to natural fight/flight mechanisms. So you can overreact in terms of force used in self defense because the primal fight gear has kicked in but cognitively you think "I am doing the right thing, I am defending myself and/or my loved one.". Martial arts can teach you that there are many speeds as well as teach you how to shift gears. The difference between the "good" person or the "bad" is what is in your mindset walking in the door. Are you looking for the confidence and/or self control along with the self defense aspect or are you looking to simply be better at thumping people. The former is a good person and always was, the later not so much.

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[PhotonGuy]

No, only if the force appears disproportional. Somewhere else in this thread our OP doesn't have a scratch, the other guy has like a broken nose and broken glasses. Now if no one else at that party steps up and says it was self defense, or consensual, and the guy bleeding says "I have been assaulted" what does the evidence tells us? The Police aren't fact finders. Their job is to simply ask "is their probable cause to believe this person committed a crime". The Judges are the fact finders, determining if such cases proceed and then later if it results in a conviction.

This is why I tell people, "don't let your pride get in the way. If you can walk away walk away." Don't care about the fact that, at the time, our OP was concerned girls would think he was a chump, or that the other guys buddies my call ya a wimp or coward. Self defense is to save yourself from Injury, not to save face.

Then you have the fact that many places make unsanctioned mutual fights illegal.

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Somebody from New York State told me that if you get into a confrontation and your assailant is hurt worse than you that you will get in trouble even if they took the first punch. According to them that's how it is in New York State and if thats true than NY is not all that self defense friendly.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Its been said on this thread that consensual fights are legal and that if that weren't the case that boxers would get in trouble for fighting in a boxing match. Well this is the way I see it, when boxers fight in a match they are doing so under a licensed organization. If two boxers decided to slug it out in the street even if they both gave their consent they would get in trouble and get arrested. So in order to legally fight somebody you have to go through the proper legal procedures to do so.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Somebody from New York State told me that if you get into a confrontation and your assailant is hurt worse than you that you will get in trouble even if they took the first punch. According to them that's how it is in New York State and if thats true than NY is not all that self defense friendly.

Not entirely. We've talked about it a couple of times on here, but it's essentially whether or not you used reasonable force to defend yourself. If you don't "reasonably" suspect your life is in danger but still beat the snot out of them than you'll be in trouble. If you respond with appropriate force to their intended level of attack than hour fine.

Either way it doesn't really effect anything as Ironbear doesn't live in NY

 

[moonhill99]

I think Ironbear is confusing self defense with beating up.

In most places it is crime and arrestable offense to beat up the bad guy. In some culture and law it is even crime to rough up a bad guy.

Yes beating up a burglar, robber or criminal would put you in jail.

And even rough up a bad guy is looked down on in many places in Europe by the public or by the police.

 

[moonhill99]

Not entirely. We've talked about it a couple of times on here, but it's essentially whether or not you used reasonable force to defend yourself. If you don't "reasonably" suspect your life is in danger but still beat the snot out of them than you'll be in trouble. If you respond with appropriate force to their intended level of attack than hour fine.

Either way it doesn't really effect anything as Ironbear doesn't live in NY

Only place by law and culture acceptance he could get away with this in probably some places in say Africa or Asia. If he moved there.

But some culture probably just cut of hand or shoot the burglar or robber as crime punishment. So no need to beat the bad guy up.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Only place by law and culture acceptance he could get away with this in probably some places in say Africa or Asia. If he moved there.

But some culture probably just cut of hand or shoot the burglar or robber as crime punishment. So no need to beat the bad guy up.

Im not saying anything about what is or isn't allowed wherever he lives (I have michigan in my mind but I could be way off) since I don't know the laws there. Just that it's not New York, so NY self-defense laws don't really have any bearing on the subject. Of course, half of the stuff in this thread haven't had any bearing, but still worth pointing out IMO.

 

[RTKDCMB]

"Friend zone"

A bit like the 'Phantom Zone'.

 

[drop bear]

Not entirely. We've talked about it a couple of times on here, but it's essentially whether or not you used reasonable force to defend yourself. If you don't "reasonably" suspect your life is in danger but still beat the snot out of them than you'll be in trouble. If you respond with appropriate force to their intended level of attack than hour fine.

Either way it doesn't really effect anything as Ironbear doesn't live in NY

It depends if he lies. Laws are great but they are interpreted by people.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

It depends if he lies. Laws are great but they are interpreted by people.

very true. Im just referring to the law in general though..depending on the jury and the people in question, a situation that results in the initial attacker getting in trouble could just as easily have had the opposite result.

 

[Blindside]

Exactly not all styles have competition. What about tai chi or aikido (not sure if aikido has competition but I don't think so but I could be wrong)

 

[Tez3]

Somebody from New York State told me that if you get into a confrontation and your assailant is hurt worse than you that you will get in trouble even if they took the first punch. According to them that's how it is in New York State and if thats true than NY is not all that self defense friendly.

That's hardly a reliable source and is very foggy in it's wording, I imagine like most place it depends on circumstances.

If two boxers decided to slug it out in the street even if they both gave their consent they would get in trouble and get arrested. So in order to legally fight somebody

Not necessarily, we have bare knuckle fights quite often in car parks and fields, no one gets into trouble for them. besides the police don't have to arrest, they can move people on and give them warnings and cautions. Arresting isn't the only option available.

In most places it is crime and arrestable offense to beat up the bad guy. In some culture and law it is even crime to rough up a bad guy.

More nonsense because it's so vague, there is no law anywhere that says ' it is a criminal offence to beat up a bad guy' lol, there's laws on assault and circumstances, again, will decide whether an offence has been committed.

Yes beating up a burglar, robber or criminal would put you in jail.

How do you keep coming up with this stuff? circumstances are all, you are allowed to use reasonable force to defend yourself, if you go around beating people up for no other reason than you think you should you are committing criminal offences yourself and no better than those you think are criminals.

And even rough up a bad guy is looked down on in many places in Europe by the public or by the police.

More meaningless twaddle, when ' bad guys' are roughed up there are never police or public around, it's part of the criminal world and not seen usually by the rest. No one is stupid enough to walk up to someone and start beating them up because they are a 'bad guy'.

 

[Ironbear24]

That's hardly a reliable source and is very foggy in it's wording, I imagine like most place it depends on circumstances.



Not necessarily, we have bare knuckle fights quite often in car parks and fields, no one gets into trouble for them. besides the police don't have to arrest, they can move people on and give them warnings and cautions. Arresting isn't the only option available.



More nonsense because it's so vague, there is no law anywhere that says ' it is a criminal offence to beat up a bad guy' lol, there's laws on assault and circumstances, again, will decide whether an offence has been committed.



How do you keep coming up with this stuff? circumstances are all, you are allowed to use reasonable force to defend yourself, if you go around beating people up for no other reason than you think you should you are committing criminal offences yourself and no better than those you think are criminals.



More meaningless twaddle, when ' bad guys' are roughed up there are never police or public around, it's part of the criminal world and not seen usually by the rest. No one is stupid enough to walk up to someone and start beating them up because they are a 'bad guy'.

The funny thing is he is arguing about this with police officers. As if you guys don't know your job lol.

 

[moonhill99]

More nonsense because it's so vague, there is no law anywhere that says ' it is a criminal offence to beat up a bad guy' lol, there's laws on assault and circumstances, again, will decide whether an offence has been committed.

What a load of nonsense. As number of family member being a police officers and have done ride one with them, most family domestic assaults arrest are slap or push or a combative suspect.

Please spend some time doing a ride on program with law enforcement in your area. I have done ride on program with law enforcement. Most of my my family are in law enforcement.

No assault, slap or push is required for arrest. If you are combative and the police believe you may assaults your ex or wife you will be ask to leave or be taken to jail.

I seen many people taken to jail with no blood or bruise. I have seen people taken to jail for slap and even a push.

I have seen people taken for jail for yelling and screaming.

Beating up person means there is blood and bruise this is assault battery. The person may or may not be sent to the hospital.

Please don't confuse the word beating up vs roughing up. If you assault a suspect no matter the crime and he is all bloody and looks beaten up and you look all fine, it not even going fly in most conservatives courts in south of you saying you using self defense.

A roundhouse kick to head for drunk standing in door way is going look really bad in court.

 

[drop bear]

Disproportionate force is what you are trying to get at there.