Sifu is pissed off.

[moonhill99]

But here is the thing. For consent to attach it has to be informed. We know Hanzou does BJJ, and we know what BJJ entails, so we are informed. The boxer knows the rules of a boxing match, they are informed. While an extreme example, let's say we bumped into each other and you challenged me to a "fight" in a bar. You got into your stance, I take the conveniently still disassembled pool cue off the pool table and go FMA on you splitting your skull open. We both consented to the fight but your consent was uninformed because you were likely not expecting me to immediately go to weapons. Uninformed consent is not consent under the law.

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He should post want state he is in so we can look up the law. The family domestic in Florida does not have to be assault. You can go to jail just for yelling, screaming, pushing or putting your hands on the person. You don't have to push, kick, strike or take the person to the ground. Or fight at the ground!!

 

[Juany118]

Well those are very different circumstances. I did just up and throw this person to the floor, I asked him if he wanted to have a "Judo" match. As kenpodesciple stated above he knows I train, and even makes fun of me for training so much.

So it's not like he had no clue what he was getting himself into. If he had simply said no I would have let it go at that.

The point is if the cops show up it's your word against his... unless you have third parties willing to come forward. You could be telling the 100% truth but if you have no supporting witnesses and the facts and circumstances that the cops see in the aftermath contradict it such the "why would an out of shape middle age guy be consenting to a fight with this 20 something who trains in martial arts and bench presses 300?" Kicks in. That is why I said it's about what can be proven.

You also missed that most states even have unsanctioned consent fights as illegal. The point is to make clear fights in public are, to one degree or another, dice rolls in terms of outcomes.

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[moonhill99]

No I am actually trying to help you. You have no clue how often in a fight, when the cops show up, it's not necessarily the person who "started it" that is the only one locked up. They first person usually put in cuffs? The guy winning/not bleeding. Then MAYBE a neutral third party has the integrity to step forward and clear him. If it is a he said/she said game the guy winning/not bleeding goes to jail.

Example, Saturday night, we had a HUGE brawl at a local banquet hall (we had to call in 5 surrounding PDs for manpower). We hooked a bunch of people. One of them was actually a victim but due to his demeanor and other circumstances he was a suspect as far as we were concerned, until a 60 odd year old women, whose Grand Kids I used to play with when I did community policing and who is (incidentally) one of the nicest ladies on earth, ran up to me and told me the guy was only trying to defend his 16 daughter from getting struck. If that lady hadn't been there that guy would have gone to the station because we had no one impartial to vouch for him.

The law doesn't care about what is known only what can be proved and if it is can be proven you beat a guy, and it can't be proven it was consensual or self defense you get booked.

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Unless he is in Texas he can go to jail for shooting a criminal be it a burglary, home invasion or robbery. A citizens arrest or police officer roughing up bad guy can go to jail. No blood or bruise is required.

Texas is probably the only state where you can shoot unharmed person in self defense.

Many police officers have their hands tied in Europe. No police officer can push, kick or strike and it don't matter if the police officer is getting beaten up.

 

[Juany118]

Unless he is in Texas he can go to jail for shooting a criminal be it a burglary, home invasion or robbery. A citizens arrest or police officer roughing up bad guy can go to jail. No blood or bruise is required.

Texas is probably the only state where you can shoot unharmed person in self defense.

Many police officers have their hands tied in Europe. No police officer can push, kick or strike and it don't matter if the police officer is getting beaten up.

What European Countries do you speak of? England all cops don't have guns but they can use physical force to effect arrests. France has issues with complaints of use of force in their Muslim Community the way the US has in the African American community, and any US Soldier who got into a bar fight in Germany knows the Polizei don't pull punches. Italian police all pack weapons.

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[Ironbear24]

The point is if the cops show up it's your word against his... unless you have third parties willing to come forward. You could be telling the 100% truth but if you have no supporting witnesses and the facts and circumstances that the cops see in the aftermath contradict it such the "why would an out of shape middle age guy be consenting to a fight with this 20 something who trains in martial arts and bench presses 300?" Kicks in. That is why I said it's about what can be proven.

You also missed that most states even have unsanctioned consent fights as illegal. The point is to make clear fights in public are, to one degree or another, dice rolls in terms of outcomes.

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Because he has a massive ego and thinks he can take on the world. If he did call the police I guarantee you they wouldn't even take the case seriously. There was no harm done to him, no blood no bruises nothing. He also consented to it which many witnesses could verify.

 

[moonhill99]

Well those are very different circumstances. I did just up and throw this person to the floor, I asked him if he wanted to have a "Judo" match. As kenpodesciple stated above he knows I train, and even makes fun of me for training so much.

So it's not like he had no clue what he was getting himself into. If he had simply said no I would have let it go at that.

Why would he being a Judo guy fight you being a wrestler?

 

[Ironbear24]

Why would he being a Judo guy fight you being a wrestler?

You got it backwards.

 

[moonhill99]

In old days in the US the police used baton and could push, kick and strike be it street fight or bar fight. But the media and public has looked down on this and LAPD use of baton. So more officers use taser these days than going out using a baton or fighting Clint Eastwood style.

It not that cops can't push, kick and strike it just it looks really bad in public eye and the media these days. If the bad guy is not doing any pushing, kicking and striking .

Self defense is tricking word be it the police or the public. If I go to the 711 and person stands one feet in front of me ( even yelling at me) or does not allow me to exit the building!! I cannot legally touch the person or push the person out of my path. I'm not cop. But the cop can legally touch or gram the person.

If person is resisting arrest or pulling away not pushing, kicking and striking the officer or going at the officer the officer can NOT go out pushing, kicking and striking. But can touch, gram, use a take down, or use of a taser. But the public cannot do this.

State of Texas I can pull out a gun on someone that broke into my home. Under Texas law to protect myself, property and family. In the UK and Canada I cannot. The gun laws don't cover self defense on person, property and family.

They have the fear for life law not self defense. You have to prove in court you could not runway and had to shoot because I was fear for my life. Guns must be locked up at all times in UK and Canada.

 

[moonhill99]

Other thing is cop shooting in US is different in the UK and Canada.

There was incident in Canada of cop shooing a Emotionally Disturbed Person on city bus armed with knife. After many times to drop knife the suspect refuse and started to walk to officers the officer than shot the Person.

There was media and public out cry and officer got charged. Because the officer did not move out of harms way. And saying why did the officer not tase the person or shoot the person in leg.

Such a huge culture difference. None of this would play out this way in the US. If you are armed and don't drop it and refuse the police orders you get shot and case close.

 

[Juany118]

In old days in the US the police used baton and could push, kick and strike be it street fight or bar fight. But the media and public has looked down on this and LAPD use of baton. So more officers use taser these days than going out using a baton or fighting Clint Eastwood style.

It not that cops can't push, kick and strike it just it looks really bad in public eye and the media these days. If the bad guy is not doing any pushing, kicking and striking .

Self defense is tricking word be it the police or the public. If I go to the 711 and person stands one feet in front of me ( even yelling at me) or does not allow me to exit the building!! I cannot legally touch the person or push the person out of my path. I'm not cop. But the cop can legally touch or gram the person.

If person is resisting arrest or pulling away not pushing, kicking and striking the officer or going at the officer the officer can NOT go out pushing, kicking and striking. But can touch, gram, use a take down, or use of a taser. But the public cannot do this.

State of Texas I can pull out a gun on someone that broke into my home. Under Texas law to protect myself, property and family. In the UK and Canada I cannot. The gun laws don't cover self defense on person, property and family.

They have the fear for life law not self defense. You have to prove in court you could not runway and had to shoot because I was fear for my life. Guns must be locked up at all times in UK and Canada.

Ummm FYI... been a cop in the US for almost 20 years, use of force hasn't changed, so long as you are using the rules that have existed for the last 40 odd years. All Rodney King did was highlight that maybe some cops weren't following the rules.

As for UK you can defend yourself. The gun needs to be locked BUT they actually sell rapid open gun safes now that are as easy as opening a drawer.

Householders and the use of force against intruders

As for Canada Under Section 40 of the Criminal Code, which deals with the defence of dwellings says, everyone who is in possession of a dwelling house is justified in using as much force as necessary, to prevent any person from forcibly breaking into or entering the dwelling house without lawful authority.

There are no restrictions on the use of firearms. Where are you getting your info because it is pretty much...wrong.

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[Juany118]

Other thing is cop shooting in US is different in the UK and Canada.

There was incident in Canada of cop shooing a Emotionally Disturbed Person on city bus armed with knife. After many times to drop knife the suspect refuse and started to walk to officers the officer than shot the Person.

There was media and public out cry and officer got charged. Because the officer did not move out of harms way. And saying why did the officer not tase the person or shoot the person in leg.

Such a huge culture difference. None of this would play out this way in the US. If you are armed and don't drop it and refuse the police orders you get shot and case close.

The same outcry in the Canada case happens in the US. People don't think logically but with the heart. They see a mentally ill person, not in control of their faculties get shot and they freak, even if the officer had no choice.

It doesn't mean it is not a permissible use of force. As for the UK...they are actually INCREASING the number of Armed response officers they have, especially in London. Again please, where are you getting this info?

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[moonhill99]

Other thing in state of Texas cops can legally do is shoot unarmed person, push, kick, strike if the cop fears he or she could be beaten up. Where the suspect does not have to push, kick or strike the officer.

A 100 pound body difference, bodybuilder, tall person, really big guy is going to go bad for the officer one way or an other!! So just resisting he could get shot or get kicked or pushed so on. Yes just resisting or pulling a way. You can't do this in the UK or Canada

Same thing researching for floor board, glovebox, under the seat or your hands in your jacket when officers pulls you over. Yes specially late at night in high crime gang area.

Many areas in the US the police can legally shoot an unarmed person if cop fears he or she could get beaten up or the suspect may be reaching for a gun.

 

[Juany118]

Other thing in state of Texas cops can legally do is shoot unarmed person, push, kick, strike if the cop fears he or she could be beaten up. Where the suspect does not have to push, kick or strike the officer.

A 100 pound body difference, bodybuilder, tall person, really big guy is going to go bad for the officer one way or an other!! So just resisting he could get shot or get kicked or pushed so on. Yes just resisting or pulling a way. You can't do this in the UK or Canada

Same thing researching for floor board, glovebox, under the seat or your hands in your jacket when officers pulls you over. Yes specially late at night in high crime gang area.

Many areas in the US the police can legally shoot an unarmed person if cop fears he or she could get beaten up or the suspect may be reaching for a gun.

Please again answer the question, "what are your sources" because so much of this is over simplified and or completely wrong.

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[moonhill99]

There was an incident of ex-husband stalking the wife in Houston. He got into her car and would not get out!! There was struggle and she shot him!!

If she did this in Canada or the UK she would be in prison. hack even in the US if she did in most places she would be in prison.

She would have to prove she had no other choice.

They don't allow open carry or concealed carry.

 

[Juany118]

There was an incident of ex-husband stalking the wife in Houston. He got into her car and would not get out!! There was struggle and she shot him!!

If she did this in Canada or the UK she would be in prison. hack even in the US if she did in most places she would be in prison.

She would have to prove she had no other choice.

They don't allow open carry or concealed carry.

Well first, she could have done what is on the clear rise in England, stabbing him, and if he was stalking her and went to do that she would be good depending on the circumstances... the burdens of proof for self defense are no different in all 3 Nations, US, Canada or UK, the only difference is what weapons you can carry legally in public.

So again since everything you are using is wrong or over simplified what is your information source?

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[moonhill99]

As for the public view on self-defense generally the police, courts and the public are more okay with pushing, low kicks than high kicks. Mush of Taekwondo would put you in jail in most states unless you where bleeding and the police officers and court seen you had no other choice.

The police, courts and the public normally looked down on high kicks as over kill. So if the bad guy is bloody and you not, than you going to jail. It would be out to prove in court self-defense.

 

[moonhill99]

As for OP that agree for a family fight!! In some areas the police could look at this as an illegal fight.

If me and my neighbor agree to fight or co worker and I agree to fight at xx street and time xx that could be illegal fight.

Just like all the other underground illegal fights cops bust all the time.

 

[moonhill99]

I know there was a time that underground boxing and MMA was illegal in some areas.

And in Canada and New York police wear arresting people in MMA and underground boxing. AN Other illegal street fights.

So I would not be surprised if the OP gets arrested for a illegal street fight.

 

[Juany118]

As for the public view on self-defense generally the police, courts and the public are more okay with pushing, low kicks than high kicks. Mush of Taekwondo would put you in jail in most states unless you where bleeding and the police officers and court seen you had no other choice.

The police, courts and the public normally looked down on high kicks as over kill. So if the bad guy is bloody and you not, than you going to jail. It would be out to prove in court self-defense.

You you won't name the sources because they either don't exist, are not reputable and you have no professional experience or training on the issues you have been making sweeping statements on. Gotcha

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[PhotonGuy]

You got off lightly. Your sifu tried to teach you a lesson, he didn't break any bones or toss you out of class.

That could mean a major lawsuit against the sifu, if he breaks a student's bones.