Should Head Shots Be Banned in Youth Competition?

[WaterGal]

I actually remove students from sparring if they can't keep their hands up and protect their heads. We also train how to block strikes that come to the head and how to properly address and defend against kicks. I'm actually surprised that with all of the kicking that TKD does that they spar with their hands down. The kicks to the head in karate doesn't seem to be as bad as it is with TKD. I just think that maybe some of the Karate kids and adults pick up bad habits from TKD and point sparring.

The not guarding the head business comes from the lack of punches to the head. When you can kick and punch to the body but only kick to the head, it tends to make more sense to focus on guarding the body, and dodge or bring your hands up once you see a head shot coming.

Edit: I understand why this is a problem from a self-defense perspective, I'm discussing the sport strategy here.

 

[ballen0351]

I think banning head shots in comps for children is a no brainer (LOL) Teach and train it in class under a controlled environment and not full contact but don't allow them in Comps for kids. There is enough data showing how bad concussions are in adults its only reasonable to atleast error on the side of caution with kids and other sports are trying to remove or limit head contact its a smart move in my opinion.

As for the teach them "control" crowd, sure you may in your school but do other schools your going to compete against care? Do you want to risk your kids health on the hope all schools are teaching control Or do they just want to win and don't care. That's why I say train it in your schools for self-defense purposes but keep them out of the comps until they are older

 

[Dirty Dog]

I think banning head shots in comps for children is a no brainer (LOL) Teach and train it in class under a controlled environment and not full contact but don't allow them in Comps for kids. There is enough data showing how bad concussions are in adults its only reasonable to atleast error on the side of caution with kids and other sports are trying to remove or limit head contact its a smart move in my opinion.

When was the last time you saw a kids competition that was full contact? We're far from a tourney-oriented school, but I do get flyers all the time, and I cannot recall the last time the kids groups were not light contact, with about half being "no" contact to the head - the shot is thrown, but stopped short (you know, that control thing I mentioned).

 

[WaterGal]

Do you want to risk your kids health on the hope all schools are teaching control Or do they just want to win and don't care.

If the competition penalizes hard contact to the head, then schools that just want to win will teach control.

 

[ballen0351]

If the competition penalizes hard contact to the head, then schools that just want to win will teach control.

or better yet don't allow head shots until they are older, then you don't need to worry about other schools that are not as great at teaching control as some her claim to be. All other sports are changing the rules to avoid head contact to act like somehow martial arts are some how immune to the dangers is silly. By the way who gets to determin what is a "hard" shot to the head and what not? Perhaps it was just a med blow or semi hard or it was light the other kid learned to flop like soccer and basketball.

 

[ballen0351]

I cannot recall the last time the kids groups were not light contact, with about half being "no" contact to the head .

so progress everyone seems to be getting the memo...Well everyone but you

 

[Steve]

Do you guys think there's any problem with teaching kids (or anyone) to consistently pull their kicks and punches, reinforced in competition? Seems to me that training the technique correctly and prohibiting it in competition would be better than watering it down and reinforcing poor technique.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Do you guys think there's any problem with teaching kids (or anyone) to consistently pull their kicks and punches, reinforced in competition? Seems to me that training the technique correctly and prohibiting it in competition would be better than watering it down and reinforcing poor technique.

If you're training it correctly, then they're going to get hit with it a LOT more in training than in competition, simply because they spend more time training than competing.
Teaching control, just FYI, is neither watering down nor teaching poor technique.

 

[WaterGal]

By the way who gets to determin what is a "hard" shot to the head and what not? Perhaps it was just a med blow or semi hard or it was light the other kid learned to flop like soccer and basketball.

I'm coming to this from a WTF TKD perspective, so here's how they determine that. 1) Does it cause visible injury - bruise, scrape, bloody nose, etc? In that case, you lose a point. 2) Does it cause the competitor to not be able to continue the match - KO, concussion, etc? In that case, you get disqualified from the tournament and IIRC the match is a draw. I've never actually seen this happen, though. The only time I remember seeing a minor have to stop the match from a head injury, it was because they fell and hit their head on the mat.

In my experience, schools that train really poorly also don't do tournaments (other than "intra-school tournaments"), because their students get their butts kicked and it makes them look bad.

 

[ballen0351]

I'm coming to this from a WTF TKD perspective, so here's how they determine that. 1) Does it cause visible injury - bruise, scrape, bloody nose, etc? In that case, you lose a point. 2) Does it cause the competitor to not be able to continue the match - KO, concussion, etc? In that case, you get disqualified from the tournament and IIRC the match is a draw. I've never actually seen this happen, though. The only time I remember seeing a minor have to stop the match from a head injury, it was because they fell and hit their head on the mat.

In my experience, schools that train really poorly also don't do tournaments (other than "intra-school tournaments"), because their students get their butts kicked and it makes them look bad.

that's great until its your kid knocked out on the floor. For what? Do grown ups can say "we teach real martial arts with head shots" it's silly the reward isn't worth the risk. Anyone under 18 shouldn't be taking blows to the head of they can be easily prevented. I'd say higher then 18 but at 18 your an adult you accept the risks. Your also asking kids in the heat of competition to be mature enough to pull a head shot or "control" himself while they are trying to win. Ok students hit in the head for the point but not too hard because then you loose. So be quick and accurate to get the point but don't draw blood. Yeah that's a great plan. Good way to win matches I guess. Teach your kids to flop on a head shot claim a head ache and the other kids DQ you win

 

[JowGaWolf]

For my school we teach to only pull punches and kicks when we see that our sparring partner isn't going to be able to partially block the strike. This is where control plays a part. We still want the student to take the open shots but not land them. We hit pads to keep from making "pulling punches a habit". For me pulling a punch should be a choice and not a habit. when it becomes a habit then it starts to degrade the technique.

 

[ballen0351]

If you're training it correctly, then they're going to get hit with it a LOT more in training than in competition, simply because they spend more time training than competing.
Teaching control, just FYI, is neither watering down nor teaching poor technique.

that's always been a big debate is it better to pull punches and kicks or go full power but aim off to the side so you don't make contact. I don't have a real preference other then I train to punch full power and aim off to the side

 

[Dirty Dog]

that's always been a big debate is it better to pull punches and kicks or go full power but aim off to the side so you don't make contact. I don't have a real preference other then I train to punch full power and aim off to the side

I've always trained on target but with impact varying between none to a fair bit. The only thing that really gets hit full power is the bag.

 

[Steve]

Teaching control, just FYI, is neither watering down nor teaching poor technique.

teaching control is also not necessarily teaching good technique. Just FYI.

 

[WaterGal]

Your also asking kids in the heat of competition to be mature enough to pull a head shot or "control" himself while they are trying to win. Ok students hit in the head for the point but not too hard because then you loose. So be quick and accurate to get the point but don't draw blood. Yeah that's a great plan.

Well, in practice, it works pretty well. Younger kids train to not hit to the head until they've been doing TKD for a couple years and have some control, and then they train to only hit very lightly to the head. If they can't control their kicks at that point, they're going to get their butt kicked in the tournament regardless of how hard they do head shots.

A lot of people who don't do it think WTF TKD tournaments must be easy because of the limited rule-set, but actually, the amount of control, skill, speed, etc required to be competitive is very high. If you're at a level where you're doing head shots and you can't put your foot exactly where you want it as fast and hard as you want it, you're basically SOL.

Good way to win matches I guess. Teach your kids to flop on a head shot claim a head ache and the other kids DQ you win

I think you have a very solid misconception about how this all works, and aren't listening to what I'm saying.

If you get a concussion, you don't win and you can't continue competing either. If you fake it like that, the tournament EMTs are probably going to know, and if they don't, well, you'll be taken off in a stretcher and not sparring anyone else anyway. So it doesn't help you at all to fake it, unless maybe your goal is to quit the competition without losing face.

[Edited for clarity]