High Kicks to the Head

[shesulsa]

That's how I land 90 percent of my high kicks: I feint elsewhere and catch 'em wide open. It's almost too easy anymore.

Yeah because the least thing you'd expect when you drop your guard is an impossible, ineffective foot upside your head.

 

[MJS]

A few posts back I stated I was no longer involving myself in this thread, however, since you took the time to reply back to me, I'll do the same for you.

Yes, I agree that they are important, and should always be taken into consideration. However, sometimes people feel that each of these restrictions (shoes, clothes, terrain etc) will prevent the use of high kicks entirely, but that is of course not true. In the 70s, I bought a pair of those “Chuck Norris Kicking Jeans” with the extra stretchy material in the crotch so that you can kick with ease in the street (anyone else remember those). Anyway, whenever I go out, I take into consideration what I'm going to wear. If I am going to a bar or someplace of higher risk, I dress in loose clothes. In most situations, I wear shorts, sweat-pants, or other such clothes so as to not restrict my kicks.

I guess I, as well as a few others were coming from the viewpoint of, why kick high, when you have alot of targets lower? I'm also going to assume that people are taking the time to train in a variety of footwear, considering the bottom of a pair of dress shoes is different from sneakers.

If a person is not dressed appropriately for kicks, then don't kick at all - - simple common sense. I teach female students how to adjust their stance for quick defense if they are wearing heels, but recommend they either break the heel off or remove the shoe at the first opportunity. However, I believe the OP goes beyond the simple, “what if I'm wearing cement shoes - - can I kick to the head? In my every day life, there are rare times (if ever) that my dress restricts my ability to kick.
Many years ago, my older brother would get some tough guys threaten to come to his place of business (a mechanic's garage) and beat him up. He would ask me to come hang out with him for the day. I would show up in my good dress suit. He would say, “why are you dressed like that?” To which I would reply, “I don't intend to get dirty!” My dress pants are a flex-material that stretches well, and I have always felt (like when working security) that there is a psychological factor with most people when attacking a person in street clothes as opposed to a person in a suit and tie (use a clip on or break-away tie for safety).

ok.

Here is one of those “what ifs” where I chuckle. How did it get to be “in the middle of winter” all of a sudden, and how did I get in CO? Ok, common sense again. It's winter and snow and ice are on the ground. Don't bother kicking regardless of what is on your feet. On the other hand, you don't think fights occur indoors in the winter? Feel free to take you boots off.... Billy Jack did.

LOL, yeah, after I replied, I realized that mistake. I was thinking about one of DArnolds posts, while replying to yours. He is the one in CO. In any case, limitations are going to happen no matter what. I want to try to limit those as much as possible. Just because there is some snow doesnt mean I cant pull off a kick to the leg or groin. Again, I was speaking more of a higher kick.

Ok, now here's the other side of the “what if” coin. The shoes are off. Are we on a side walk? Could I move over to a grassy lawn? Am I in a parking lot or on gravel. I have fought in those circumstances (while bare foot because my shoes were already off), and I kicked the guy in the head twice. My feet suffered for the sake of the skirmish, but I didn't notice it till after the fight was over. Plus, it wasn't just the kicking, but the moving about, blocking, punching, and defending against his aggression that scraped my feet up a bit.

So you're telling me that on gravel, you fought someone with no shoes on? Do you routinely walk with no shoes on? The first 3 days of this week, it was close to 100 here in CT. I dont think I'd be walking around with no shoes. Additionally, I'm wondering just how quick ones shoes can be removed during an attack. This reminds me of someone saying, "Wait a minute I wasn't ready. Can you throw that punch again?"

Environement and what you are wearing are important factors. However, no matter what the conditions, we use what techniques we are capable of doing safely, and try to use common sense when applying high kicks. Don't rule them out entirely, just don't plan on using them constantly.

CM D.J. Eisenhart

As I've said in a few of my posts. Can I do them? Yes. Have I done them in a sparring situation? Yes. Do I train them on a regular basis? Not as much as the low line kicks. Exile quote something further down. Here is the post:

However, non of these techniques are fight enders. You may poke a man in the eye or rip at his groin but as long as he maintains consciousness he maintains the ability to cause you harm. The only way to decisively end the altercation is to strike him in the head with a powerful blow, hence the high kicks in TKD.​

I'm assuming that this was a quote from someone in this thread. I beg to differ, as if someone has to rely just on high kicks to end the altercation, they're missing something in their training. I can't get the link that Exile posted to work, so I'm not sure who said that or what thread its from.

Mike

 

[foot2face]

Exile is quoting me. The conversation took place in the TKD forum, in a thread regarding the limited emphasis on forms. I am a believer in the use of forms and was simply trying to relate my understanding of how to apply them bases on how I was taught. I never thought that a TKDist revealing his preference for head kicks would be so controversial.

 

[jks9199]

Additionally, I'm wondering just how quick ones shoes can be removed during an attack. This reminds me of someone saying, "Wait a minute I wasn't ready. Can you throw that punch again?"

This, in my opinion, is one of the biggest issues that get's the least attention. You hear the "I'll take my shoe off" idea for defending against a knife, or if wearing shoes that would impair your ability to do kicks or whatever... I can't speak for anyone else, but I can't take the boots I typically wear off easily. And I tie my shoes tightly so that they won't come off easily... I wear very few shoes that I can quickly remove.

I've checked with female students; some high heels are easily removed, but a lot of them don't come off that easy. The best thing for getting better balance is to simply stomp the heels off, it seems to me (and them).

Finally, several people have talked about feinting. While I don't want to restart the whole debate, this time in the "feints in self defense" flavor, I think there are very limited roles for feints in an unarmed self defense situation. Feints are a great tool in sparring; they're possibly even better in combat involving large or small groups fighting each other. And they're vital in many forms of armed combat. Nor am I saying that deception has limited applicability -- but, in my opinion, in unarmed self defense, there's seldom the time to set up and feint. If you're acting preemptively, you almost certainly need to be hitting hard and fast -- not trying to fake someone out. And, if you're responding to an attack, you almost certainly won't have the time to feint. Finally, if you've successfully warded off one attempt -- you're almost certainly moving out of self-defense if you re-initiate the fight by feinting. Again, there are times when any or all of the above are appropriate, but in the typical run of self-defense, they don't play a great role.

 

[Carol]

I've checked with female students; some high heels are easily removed, but a lot of them don't come off that easy. The best thing for getting better balance is to simply stomp the heels off, it seems to me (and them).

Or the ladies can adapt the fighting style to their advantage. High heels are like kubotans for the feet. They can focus force and weight in to a concentrated point. The fact that some creepo attackers like to bring a lady close to the front of their body works further to their advantage. Instead of a high kick...consider the lowest possible kick...a stomp to the instep. Could break a bone or three...could mean issues with the law for using a deadly weapon (depending on your state) but its a quick fight-ender that also hamper's your attacker's ability to follow you.

 

[Carol]

I've checked with female students; some high heels are easily removed, but a lot of them don't come off that easy. The best thing for getting better balance is to simply stomp the heels off, it seems to me (and them).

Or the ladies can adapt the fighting style to their advantage. High heels are like kubotans for the feet. They can focus force and weight in to a concentrated point. The fact that some creepo attackers like to bring a lady close to the front of their body works further to a woman's advantage. Instead of a high kick...consider the lowest possible kick...a stomp to the instep. Could break a bone or three...could mean issues with the law for using a deadly weapon (depending on your state) but its a quick fight-ender that also hamper's your attacker's ability to follow you.

 

[seasoned]

I left for a day or two and when I came back everyone is still batting this high kick thing around. I did not want to pull the old person card but I will. This is my final thought on this whole thing . Some will listen and some will not but we will all get old. “ When I was young and in my prime I use to head kick all the time, but now that I am old and gray I’ll take a leg kick any day”. In a day, long long ago, when my dojo sparred more then did kata, because kata was boring, a head kick was easier to get in then any other technique. For those of you that are very, very loose you know what I mean. We had to get loose and head kick because with no foot gear “it wasn’t made yet” the tight people only had the body above the belt to kick at so they messed up their toes a lot J . I am not bragging but as a leg kicking advocate I feel someone has to help the head kickers out a bit. In the days when I ran the streets, pre-marriage or settled down, I had times when I would stick my foot in my mouth and also times when I would and could put one up side a few heads. Was I cocky, you bet, could I pull it off you bet. Then I got older, and guess what, what took me 5 minutes to do I can’t do in an hour. What is it you ask, “flexibility”. It goes like a lot of other things when you get old, “mature“. So I did the next best thing, because I loved my art and I wanted to contunue to train. I started looking at my GoJu kata very closely. To my glee as I did my kata I found no high kicks, nada, none. All low to midrange kicks, I was in my glory and for many years now my training has taken a new turn. It is ok for me though because I don’t see any of the over 60 Okinawan sensei doing high kicks either. So I guess the moral of the story is, did I “yes” can I now “no” so with this bias attitude of mine toward low kicking I will lay my typing fingers down J J . This may call for two smiley faces.

 

[Last Fearner]

Kosho's OP, as the initiation of a conversation about the SD value of high kicks, was made in this explicit context. Those of us who were participants in that earlier thread from the beginning, knowing what the discussion had been about, continued it with the same background assumptions, as is I think pretty natural, no?

Hey exile, thanks for clearing that up for me! I apologize for not taking the time to go back to read the original thread about forms, but I find that I have less and less time to read posts lately.

The thing about the parameters that I think is pertinent, is that I agree with you on what you say about using high kicks in each of those situations. When I was working security, I rarely did any kicks at all for fear of law suits to me and my employer. I had plenty of opportunities, but the reason my friend and I got hired to take over security was because the previous (international) security firm was fired because one of their uniformed/armed guards shoved a unruly woman out the door (using her body to open the door) as they ejected her, and she sued.

For safety sake, most of the criteria you have laid out in your scenarios would almost automatically click in my mind as "don't kick high here." If the majority of the fights I encountered were vicious, all out brawls, with limited mobility, rough terrain, or very aggressive, close quarter attackers, then I would probably never be using high kicks. That's why I say the parameters you describe pretty much answers the question. Don't kick high in those cases (unless you have already stunned the attacker, and a high kick will be quick and easy with virtually no chance of failure).

So, cheers to you for pursuing your original debate with a firm conviction, and allowing me to challenge some of the points of particular specifications. :ultracool

CM D.J. Eisenhart

 

[Hand Sword]

Just playing devil's advocate. One thing the UFC teaches people is to charge in with a tackle or wrestling shot to neutralize kicks. I've met many untrained young men who claim that's what they'd do against a "kicker" because of what they've seen on UFC. Does that mean for these guys much of the psychological effect that causes a freeze up has been disapated by their entertainment? Bearing this in mind I wouldn't want to take the chance my attacker(s) has a wrestling backround and attempt to lift my foot off the ground pre-emptively. I probably wouldn't use a pre-emptive kick to the head unless the attacker gave such a blatant opening for the front head kick (or the high section kick described earlier, frontward direction) that I couldn't resist. I wouldn't try to pull of a roundhouse or side kick to the head because it will be more difficult to recover from these as they cause you to turn your center away from the attacker.
_Don Flatt

I wouldn't and haven't used high kicks myself for real. So I'd agree with your thoughts and reservations about using them. Going with your UFC scenario, I would add throughout my experience both in and watching many fights. Those diving tackles were very common by "street thugs" in the opening seconds of a fight. That's why my last post referred to an off chance scenario that I've seen occassionally as well.

 

[Last Fearner]

I'm lost on why you'd need to remove boots to kick in the first place. Why discard a force multiplier? Boots also simplify targeting a bit. (Not much of an issue hard vs soft target when the boot's taking the force vs the foot itself etc.)

Wouldn't striking in general suffer in the winter? Heavy jackets etc would all act to disperse the force of strikes. A punch is still generating a lot of forces antagonistic to balance on ice...

These are excellent questions, Marginal! As to removing boots, I think it depends greatly on several factors.

*What type of boot (cowboy boots, light work boot, heavy winter boot)
*What are the winter conditions (just cold, light snow, deep snow, ice)
*Am I still outdoors, or have I gone inside a building
*Do I really have time to take the boots off, and would it matter.

The lightweight, hard boot is a good tool (especially the pointed toe or steel toe - oops! deadly weapon?). I live in Michigan, so some of my winter boots are those big rubber arctic type. I probably couldn't do a low kick to the knee fast enough in those, and if I ever missed, the weight and momentum would probably pull my other foot out from under me.

Most boots, and even some shoes, have a sluggish effect to kicking. Some are hard enough to hurt the attacker, but for the most part, heavier shoes and boots reduce the speed of my kicks so telegraphing is a factor. Pivoting properly and ankle support plays into it also. Sometimes, shoes can cause the foot to flip sideways during kicks (or just basic stances) causing a strain of the ankle, and possible fall.

Our Winters have a variety of conditions. Sometimes we are waist deep in snow. The following week, we could have little or no snow, and the ground is frozen solid (A nice hip throw or flip would not feel good). If dressed in heavy clothes, mobility can be limited, but a fall to the ground is sometimes padded, as well as strikes to the body (thus, the head might make a better target). It's like trying to punch the Stay Puft character from Ghostbusters.

I guess our advice needs to cover all people in all weather conditions. Winter in some states (and countries) means it drops from 110 degrees to 80 degrees. When I was in Arizona many years ago, people were wearing heavy jackets in November (70 degrees), and I was in a t-shirt and shorts. They thought I was crazy!

Anyhow, on slippery ground (indoors or out) I recommend to my students to go right to the floor, and start kicking and grappling as needed. No sense falling on an attempted punch or kick, and get injured on the way down. Let your opponent try to attack once your on the ground, and maybe they will take the hard fall.

CM D.J. Eisenhart

 

[Last Fearner]

I guess I, as well as a few others were coming from the viewpoint of, why kick high, when you have alot of targets lower?

For the most part, I agree. I would prefer a solid base, with quick low kicks, and hands and elbows. Why kick high? If the low or mid targets are being well guarded, but the head is not. If I have dazed my attacker with hand strikes to the head and I want to knock them out, but not break bones (an instep roundhouse to the side of the head as opposed to a side-kick to the knee). If I want to end a fight fast, perhaps to deal with another attacker, someone attacking my friend or loved one a few feet away, and I don't have time to grapple, yet they are guarding against most every attack. I will fake low, and kick high, or strike with the hand to the head, and finish with a power kick to be done in 1.5 seconds, and move on. If I take a guy down with a leg break, but not knock him out, he might pull a gun and shoot me before I can finish him off, or go to help my loved one. Why didn't he pull the gun in the first place? Who knows?

So you're telling me that on gravel, you fought someone with no shoes on? Do you routinely walk with no shoes on?

In the scenario I mentioned, I woke up in the middle of the night to a prowler outside. I head a noise and went out to investigate (could have been animal in garbage). I found myself face to face with him, in the driveway, on stones, in my bare feet.

Additionally, I'm wondering just how quick ones shoes can be removed during an attack.

Most of the shoes I wear, come off in a split second (slip-on loafers, Martial Art shoes, tennis shoes tied loosely). If I am being threatened, but the fight has not begun, I can step on the heel of each shoe and slip them off without bending over or taking my eyes off the guy. It only takes 2 seconds or less. If I am in a fight, and create distance from my opponent for a few seconds, I can remove them without anyone ever noticing it happened.

Otherwise, if it is not convenient to do so, or if the terrain would be better with shoes on, then I don't take them off. I don't find it a requirement for kicking as long as my footwear moves fluently with my foot.

CM D.J. Eisenhart

 

[jks9199]

Most of the shoes I wear, come off in a split second (slip-on loafers, Martial Art shoes, tennis shoes tied loosely). If I am being threatened, but the fight has not begun, I can step on the heel of each shoe and slip them off without bending over or taking my eyes off the guy. It only takes 2 seconds or less. If I am in a fight, and create distance from my opponent for a few seconds, I can remove them without anyone ever noticing it happened.

But, if your shoes come off that easily -- will they stay on when you want them to? Or will you suddenly find yourself unexpectedly in bare feet when you're trying to run away?

Of course, you might find yourself in possession of a really unexpected distance impact weapon as your shoe goes flying in a kick!

 

[zDom]

And, if you're responding to an attack, you almost certainly won't have the time to feint.

No offense intended, but from this statement it appears you are talking about the type of feint used by beginners: a motion all by itself.

The type of feint I'm talking about takes a milisecond. A small motion low linked to the actual technique, much in the same was combination punching or kicking is linnked, NOT a "feint" ... pause...reset... real technique.

It is a subtle motion that happens as part of the technique — again, adding only a milisecond.


High kicking is almost always a finishing technique. Presume the attacker has been stunned, be it the "overhand right" or "backfist" or whatever.

Among the infinite options:

a) Take the attacker to the ground. Mount. "Rain down elbows" on him until he is unconcious, hoping none of his bodies hit you in the back of the head.

b) Plant a nice quick hard kick on their noggin. Friends may reconsider their willingness to continue the confrontation.

(shrug)

Not saying a high kick is always the best option, but it IS viable and COULD be, if you have the skills, a really good option given the right circumstances.

There are several local anecdotes going back over the 30-some years martial arts have been practiced and used around here (and its a small town — everybody knows everybody's business and stories are verified by many).

In street encounters here, the high kicks have proved effective and ended the conflict. High kickers have NOT ended up thrown down on the back by attacker grabbing their kick, shooting in on them, or them slipping.

Maybe we just kick better around here than the "experts" elsewhere Maybe we're just lucky using "ineffective" techniques. Maybe we pick the right tools at the right time.

Maybe techniques being effective/ineffective has something to do with local culture, how people fight*— I've long held the belief that "rolling" as BJJ'ists do works great in the Brazillian culture where mano y mano fights seem to be the norm, where around here it is a matter of "when" his friends will jump in — not IF.

Draw your own conclusions.


FWIW, in the very few conflicts I've had as a trained martial artist the situation has never been right for me to high kick, although one guy was so befuddled by my hand speed he THOUGHT I had kicked him in the face (that's what he told me) It was a simple vertical first reverse punch

Then there was the time I found myself in a bad situation with an injured hamstring WISHING I had my kicks available as an option. It worked out well for me, but I sure did feel vulnerable not having them as an option.

 

[shesulsa]

Everyone should train kicking with shoes on now and again.

And I'm going to disagree with Carol about women in high heels - I discourage them. Ladies who have worn them for a while can achieve an *excellent* sense of balance in them but the position of the feet is not conducive to effective posture, power generation nor accuracy.

 

[zDom]

After some further thought:

For the sake of disucssion, let's replace "high kicking" with "shooting" (as in the shoot tackle).

I could go on about: shooting works great "in the ring" but is horrible for the street. Concrete is bad on the knees. Too many risks "on the street" because they might:

- knee you in the face
- catch you in a guillitine choke
- sprawl on top of you
- kick you in the head (heheh.. just had to throw that one in there
- catch you with an uppercut
- hammer down on the back of your neck

(backed up with video proof from many UFC fights..)

etc.

The truth is, if I tried to "shoot" in on someone, one of these would probably happen because I just don't have the experience in shooting in on people.

I mean, sure: I've trained it, know how to shoot. I can pull off a better-than-decent shoot.

But I don't have the kind of experience it takes to know WHEN to shoot, how to avoid the pitfalls. I don't have the deep confidence in my shooting ability.

For a BJJ black belt, a shoot is VERY viable. Not so much for me.

For ME a shoot has more risk than a high kick!


But to get to my point:

If someone is starting from scratch trying to build their self defense skills, I am NOT going to recommend high kicking.

I think in order to achieve the level of skill required where high kicking becomes a viable, useful technique takes a SIGNIFICANT time/training investment.

Maybe 10 years.

Honestly, out of the hundreds of TKD and HKD students I have trained with or been around, there are about a dozen that I think high kicking would be a viable option for in self defense.

Training low level kicking IS a much better option.

But for someone who has already invested in high kicking for other reasons (its FUN in the dojang!), I don't see any reason why to automatically just cross high kicking off the list of viable techniques as "too dangerous" or "impractical."

 

[exile]

Hey exile, thanks for clearing that up for me! I apologize for not taking the time to go back to read the original thread about forms, but I find that I have less and less time to read posts lately.

I'm not sure an apology on your part is actually warranted, LF—after reading that post of yours about the OP I realized that none of us who had carried the original discussion over from the first thread had posted a link to it identifying it as the origin of the new thread, so that people coming in afresh very likely wouldn't have any idea of why the conversation was taking the form it did... it rerminded me that some kind of context, when a thread splits, whether by Mod action or in the kind of discretionary way that happened here, is almost always a good idea. Once I realized that, a lot of aspects to the discussion, especially the way people seemed to be talking past each other much of the time, became clearer....

... yet another problem with the nature of internet communication, eh?

The thing about the parameters that I think is pertinent, is that I agree with you on what you say about using high kicks in each of those situations. When I was working security, I rarely did any kicks at all for fear of law suits to me and my employer. I had plenty of opportunities, but the reason my friend and I got hired to take over security was because the previous (international) security firm was fired because one of their uniformed/armed guards shoved a unruly woman out the door (using her body to open the door) as they ejected her, and she sued.

For safety sake, most of the criteria you have laid out in your scenarios would almost automatically click in my mind as "don't kick high here." If the majority of the fights I encountered were vicious, all out brawls, with limited mobility, rough terrain, or very aggressive, close quarter attackers, then I would probably never be using high kicks. That's why I say the parameters you describe pretty much answers the question. Don't kick high in those cases (unless you have already stunned the attacker, and a high kick will be quick and easy with virtually no chance of failure).

And I can also see that under other circumstances, like preemption, or when opportunity presents itself with in the form of increased range and the like, a high kick by an experienced kicker can indeed pack an awful wallop without committing you to the riskiness of getting in closer than you'd like.

So, cheers to you for pursuing your original debate with a firm conviction, and allowing me to challenge some of the points of particular specifications. :ultracool

CM D.J. Eisenhart

And cheers to you also, LF! I feel much better that we're able to see what each other were getting at.

 

[Last Fearner]

But, if your shoes come off that easily -- will they stay on when you want them to? Or will you suddenly find yourself unexpectedly in bare feet when you're trying to run away?

My shoes tend to stay on pretty good when I want them to. It just takes a quick pressure on the heel to take them off intentionally though. However, that doe present a problem with some of the loafers I wear, thus I would just have to run with one shoe off until the other flies, and then leave them both behind!

The truth is, I don't plan on running much these days (I can kick fast, but I'm not much of a sprinter). I know the maxim in the Martial Art has always been to run first, if you can, but these days I don't recommend that to my students. Backing away from an opponent, and keeping your eye on them as you cautiously walk away is a good way to avoid an unnecessary risk of fighting a dangerous battle.

In my opinion, modern conflicts present too much of a chance that an attacker will just pull a gun and shoot you in the back by your third step as you run away. I usually suggest to look for near cover that you can duck behind if the lead flies. Besides, if I run, and one or more chases me, then what if they eventually catch me. Then I might be too exhausted to fight well. I'd rather finish it where it started.

Of course, you might find yourself in possession of a really unexpected distance impact weapon as your shoe goes flying in a kick!

Actually, I've had this happen in practice a few times. Many years ago (in the '70s), I used to work out in casual clothes in my front yard, with a friend of mine. I was practicing a front kick toward him while he was several feet away. My slip-on shoe flew off and smacked him right in the forehead. I couldn't have planned it better if I tried! We both agreed that would be an excellent tactic if you could perfect it with consistency.

CM D.J. Eisenhart

 

[Last Fearner]

And cheers to you also, LF! I feel much better that we're able to see what each other were getting at.

Me too!

 

[DArnold]

I guess I, as well as a few others were coming from the viewpoint of, why kick high, when you have alot of targets lower? I'm also going to assume that people are taking the time to train in a variety of footwear, considering the bottom of a pair of dress shoes is different from sneakers.

ok.

LOL, yeah, after I replied, I realized that mistake. I was thinking about one of DArnolds posts, while replying to yours. He is the one in CO. In any case, limitations are going to happen no matter what. I want to try to limit those as much as possible. Just because there is some snow doesnt mean I cant pull off a kick to the leg or groin. Again, I was speaking more of a higher kick.
Mike

Mike,
Great posts!

As I said offline, "why use a high kick, because their head is open!"
For every what if based on those who don't train with these techniques there is a simple answer.
As I said offline there are several factors determining what you use.

Just study PPCT which most everyone uses (police, secret service, military, courts... but mostly your opponent determines what happens.

As for your example above.
If the leg and groin are not open but the head is, then the head is your target.
If the head and groin are covered, then the knee is your target...
Your opponent determines what you use.
But there are several factors in any altercation that determine what you use. One also being what you are trained with.
If you don't know how to kick head and it is the only target then it's worse for you.

The main disagreement was someone touting as "FACT" that high section kicks do not work.

This persone simply does not know what they are talking about.

The myth this person was trying to perpetuate has already been disproven with simple examples by Kacey and thousands of others who have defended themselves daily with high section kicks.

Then the issue was clouded by questions posed here that do not partain to this myth but to the relative lack of understanding of how a classification of techniques works. These questions could be asked of any techniques from any style where you don't understand how they work. High section kicks are simply techniques no different than any other: punches, elbows... The questions posed have been based on any number of reasons:
- they don't train in a style that uses high kicks
- they don't have an experienced instructor
- their physical deminor is limiting
- they choose to belive someone selling something (this is the way you should do it because I have, And even though I don't know how others do it, well... it doesn't work and that's a fact!)
- they read a book that said they don't work....
- or whatever the reason

Any of these questions can easly be answered by training under a qualified instructor in an art that uses this tool.

No one stated that high kicks are the silver bulled of SD or that they should always be used, or that they always work. Anyone stating something like this would also be perpetuating a myth
This would be as foolish as stating this about any technique.

As for high section kicking the basics are simple and similar to any other tool. If you train with them and understand them they work, the same as any other tool you train with. How good you are with any technique depends on how much you train.

Touting "high kicks do not work as a fact" IMHO tends to impune the integrity of the person saying this as they are presenting themself as an expert on something that has been proved works. Integrity would dictate that they would say something like, "they do not work for me because... or I have not trained with them so I am not an expert..."

Just replace the word high kicks above with any other technique that a person has defended themselves with and you get the point.

The personal question really boild down to: Are you limited by physical capabilities (you have hip problems...), or mental limitations (you choose to accept something that can be disproved)

Some here would have you limit yourself based on their lack of knowledge.
I would find that the most dangerious of all!

Now on to a more important myth.
Living in Colorado we do not all ride horses, we have running water, indoor toilits... LOL

Yes it does snow here a lot, but that is up in the mountains.

We have more sun here in Denver than Florida or California which most people don't know. My first year hear (I think 80) I was out in shorts and a t-shirt playing football, on Christmas, in the CU stadum. It's not half as cold as the east coast. On a cold year we get probably 3 to 4 snowstorms that usually last 2 to 4 days. That's usually it. I grew up in Michigan and would not move back there for the world as it is way too cold on the east coast

 

[kaizasosei]

the strangest thing about high kicks that i found out early on when goofing off with friends or even some types of sparing, is that many people are really spooked out by high kicks. maybe it's the stereotypical martial arts movement that does it,,,maybe it is peoples insecurity and inexperience.
i do think that all striking is more difficult that it may seem and although im am aware of the possibility of opening oneself or falling down, i still see highkicks as a very powerful technique that should not be past up, if not for realistic battle then for pure art and aesthetics not to mention health and general flexibility. and for fighting also if not kicking high one still had better know how to defend against the many kickers that are out there. after all, the highkicks wont always miss or slide off but must be defended with knowledge of correct martial principles. likewise should one be able to place ones kicks with accuracy and focus and balance wherever that may be.


j