Should Head Shots Be Banned in Youth Competition?

[Bill Mattocks]

This caught my eye:

Head kicks should be banned in kids’ karate

Head kicks should be banned in kids’ karate
Times Colonist
December 4, 2015 06:26 PM

- See more at: Head kicks should be banned in kids’ karate
​

Any thoughts?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Or, alternatively, kids can be taught control.

 

[clfsean]

Ok that's awesome. They did the right thing & didn't take their son to train there. Move along.

Unless there are plans on banning "heading" in soccer, pitching in baseball, demolish racquetball/squash courts, remove any human powered wheeled devices without airbags or complete cage, etc ... you get the point.

They can be "aghast" all they want. It's their right in Canada. It's also their right to not send him to that karate school. If they're worried about physical contact & possible injury, they made the right choice to withhold him.

Personally it's safer to leave kicks & remove hand shots to the head like Kyokushin did than vice versa. But that's just me.

 

[Steve]

There is a ban on "heading" in soccer below a certain age. Isn't there? A quick search and it appears that the entire subject is mired in controversy, but the question isn't whether CTE is a real and dangerous thing. Rather, it's about mitigating risk, and determining at what age a child can be taught to head the ball. It looks like kids under 10 are not to be even introduced to heading, and above that, up to age 13, the "skill" should be introduced with soft balls. Some coaches prohibit their teams from heading, even if it is legal in the that particular league. My personal opinion is that kids should not, under any circumstances, be taught or allowed to head a fully inflated soccer ball. We know that there have been cases of kids being concussed by a fully inflated soccer ball, and we also know that repetitive brain injury is a source of many bad things as a person ages.

While blows to the head can occur in baseball, squash and other sports, blows to the head are not a "skill" being taught. It's an unintended consequence. The distinction may seem a fine one, but it's the line I personally think makes sense. In other words, are you teaching kids to deliver and/or receive blows to the head? Or are you teaching kids to play a game where a blow to the head may (or may not) ever occur?

Repetitive blows to the head are bad news. We know this. I have no idea why it's even an issue. By all means, teach the kids to kick a bag. But banning them in competition just seems like common sense to me.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

There is a ban on "heading" in soccer below a certain age. Isn't there? A quick search and it appears that the entire subject is mired in controversy, but the question isn't whether CTE is a real and dangerous thing. Rather, it's about mitigating risk, and determining at what age a child can be taught to head the ball. It looks like kids under 10 are not to be even introduced to heading, and above that, up to age 13, the "skill" should be introduced with soft balls. Some coaches prohibit their teams from heading, even if it is legal in the that particular league. My personal opinion is that kids should not, under any circumstances, be taught or allowed to head a fully inflated soccer ball. We know that there have been cases of kids being concussed by a fully inflated soccer ball, and we also know that repetitive brain injury is a source of many bad things as a person ages.

While blows to the head can occur in baseball, squash and other sports, blows to the head are not a "skill" being taught. It's an unintended consequence. The distinction may seem a fine one, but it's the line I personally think makes sense. In other words, are you teaching kids to deliver and/or receive blows to the head? Or are you teaching kids to play a game where a blow to the head may (or may not) ever occur?

Repetitive blows to the head are bad news. We know this. I have no idea why it's even an issue. By all means, teach the kids to kick a bag. But banning them in competition just seems like common sense to me.

I agree. I have seen attempts to address this in some competitions, even among adults. For example, 'halo' shots being allowed to count points, while head contact is forbidden, and other competitions where head shots are only allowed for black belts, and others where head shots are only one point, just like other techniques, to avoid turning competitions into head-hunting events.

 

[clfsean]

Funny ... in competitive Sanda, head shots are secondary. They don't land near the points as a successful take down.

This is one of those argument where sides are polarized. I don't think there will ever be a sufficient resolution to satisfy each party.

 

[Buka]

I don't think there should be any boxing competition for kids. I remember several that competed in boxing as kids. And continued into their twenties. They're grown men now in their forties and fifties. There are obvious lasting effects that sadden me greatly.

As for Martial Arts, I gotta' think on that for a bit.

 

[TSDTexan]

I generally am against competition.
A chance at a 6 foot trophy in exchange for brain damage is a nonstarter. Even if you win, you lose.

However, if the goal is to teach a young man how to fight for actual self defense, and controls are in place...

Head shots are a real and present danger in a real world fight.
Any self defense training that doesn't address this in a meaningful way is fraudulent martial arts.

If competition is used to pressure test skillsets then No. It shouldn't be banned.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Or, alternatively, kids can be taught control.

took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I was going to type something intelligent but I give up on fighting stupidity. I'm all for banning kicks and punches to the head in martial arts. That means no one will ever learn how to properly defend against strikes to the head (like olympicTKD practictioners). People from my school will then be able to dominate the match by successfully hitting them in the head.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Funny ... in competitive Sanda, head shots are secondary. They don't land near the points as a successful take down.

This is one of those argument where sides are polarized. I don't think there will ever be a sufficient resolution to satisfy each party.

Have the Sanda guys been working on their head defense lately? I notice it was a weak point for a couple of them.

 

[clfsean]

Have the Sanda guys been working on their head defense lately? I notice it was a weak point for a couple of them.

You can always come by & check.

The last time y'all were there, the training focus was "x" so that's where they went. We're going to NC in February for a Sanda smoker with another school. I'm sure there will be room if you're interested. Also we'll be on the Lei Tai in March in NC & maybe in Ohio as well.

 

[Steve]

I was going to type something intelligent but I give up on fighting stupidity. I'm all for banning kicks and punches to the head in martial arts. That means no one will ever learn how to properly defend against strikes to the head (like olympicTKD practictioners). People from my school will then be able to dominate the match by successfully hitting them in the head.

It's a good thing you were clear up front that your post would be stupid.

 

[Buka]

I've been thinking on this. I think it depends on the age of the child. I don't teach kids anymore. Even when I did they were at least twelve. (with the exceptions of kids of a student)

Control or not, I don't think I'd let seven to ten year olds whap each other in the head. Nor would I teach them any chokes in grappling. But, again, I've never really taught little kids other than as a guest instructor.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I've been thinking on this. I think it depends on the age of the child. I don't teach kids anymore. Even when I did they were at least twelve. (with the exceptions of kids of a student)

Control or not, I don't think I'd let seven to ten year olds whap each other in the head. Nor would I teach them any chokes in grappling. But, again, I've never really taught little kids other than as a guest instructor.

7 year olds lack the control so the risk of them hurting their partner is extremely high.

 

[Dirty Dog]

7 year olds lack the control so the risk of them hurting their partner is extremely high.

I would disagree.
1 - Control can be taught.
2 - They don't hit very hard - I have yet to see any research on the subject that wasn't based on adults or teens, who hit a lot harder.
Is there a risk? Sure. But while it is difficult to really quantify the risk, I don't think it is "extremely high" by any means. The risk is certainly much higher in football, for example.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It's a good thing you were clear up front that your post would be stupid.

For my school this ban wouldn't apply. We don't kick to the head anyway because it's always a risky move to do in the world of self-defense. We still practice strikes to the head because protecting the head is a key component in self-defense. The head is the one thing that attackers almost always go for in a fight.

Based on what I've seen from youtube and schools in my area, the martial art schools that tend to have head injuries from kicks are the karate and tkd schools that encourage sparring with their hands down.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I would disagree.
1 - Control can be taught.
2 - They don't hit very hard - I have yet to see any research on the subject that wasn't based on adults or teens, who hit a lot harder.
Is there a risk? Sure. But while it is difficult to really quantify the risk, I don't think it is "extremely high" by any means. The risk is certainly much higher in football, for example.

Control *can* be taught, yes. But not every child can manage it, and it still takes a lot of wild, out-of-control hits to learn that control, even for those who can.

I can't say about head shots, but I have to disagree about hitting very hard. I wear a cup whenever I am in the dojo; I've been glad of it several times, mostly whilst teaching the kids. Yeah, some of them can hit with surprising power.

 

[clfsean]

Based on what I've seen from youtube and schools in my area, the martial art schools that tend to have head injuries from kicks are the karate and tkd schools that encourage sparring with their hands down.

Can't say no to that. You drop your hands, I'm going head hunting just because there's an open invite.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Control *can* be taught, yes. But not every child can manage it, and it still takes a lot of wild, out-of-control hits to learn that control, even for those who can.

I can't say about head shots, but I have to disagree about hitting very hard. I wear a cup whenever I am in the dojo; I've been glad of it several times, mostly whilst teaching the kids. Yeah, some of them can hit with surprising power.

I'd say we have very different experiences. I don't find it at all difficult to teach a kid control. A kid using "wild, out-of-control" strikes won't be doing any contact sparring.
As for cups... I do not wear one, and never have, except when required by competition rules. Maybe you're just a wimp.