Shot victim, friend hold suspect till police arrive

[Bill Mattocks]

http://www.wwaytv3.com/2012/01/16/shot-victim-friend-hold-suspect-till-police-arrive

WILMINGTON, NC (WWAY) -- A Wilmington neighborhood is feeling a little bit safer tonight after two men held down an alleged robber until police arrived. One of the men had even been shot in the leg.

It was just after midnight Saturday when a group of friends were approached by a man walking in their neighborhood on Orange and 8th Streets.

"The guy came up and was yelling up at us from the balcony for someone to give him a cigarette, so Nick came down to give him the cigarette, and that's when the guy drew the gun on him," Jeff Marshall said.

Marshall's friend Nick, who did not want to go on camera, gave up his wallet, but that was not enough for the thief. The suspect then told him he was going to follow him home and clean out his house. That's when Nick fought back. Marshall rushed to his aid seconds later.

I don't know all the details, obviously, but I think I can derive some lessons here.

1) Do not give cigarettes to strangers. It's about the most common prelude to a mugging I have ever seen. It is very effective. Smokers will drop their guard (oh, he's just a fellow smoker like me, a good guy) and look for a cigarette, taking their eyes and attention off the person making the request. That's when the attack comes.

2) Self-defense means defense of self, not defense of wallet. The victim gave up the wallet when there was a gun pointed at him. I think that is often a wise move, no matter what amazing skillz you think you have with your registered lethal-weapons for hands.

3) When the situation becomes about your life rather than your wallet, it's time to fight. I don't think there is a standard 'moment' that can be defined like a rule or a law, but part of self-defense, IMHO, is knowing when it is time to get physical. Being forced at gunpoint to go somewhere would definitely be that time. If you're going to shoot me, shoot me here; not miles from my friends and away from any potential witnesses.

4) Get shot, cut, or otherwise injured? Well, it happens in self-defense. Unless you are dead, there are no time-outs. If you can move, move. If you can fight, fight. Do not stop until the threat is over or you are dead. Otherwise, you will be. Believe it or not, people survive very serious gunshot wounds and lacerations. If you don't stop the threat first, you may attend to your wounds only to find a bullet in your melon. Don't stop fighting until the threat is over.

Comments?

 

[Gnarlie]

Believe it or not, people survive very serious gunshot wounds and lacerations. If you don't stop the threat first, you may attend to your wounds only to find a bullet in your melon.

Comments?

Getting shot...fighting on, managing to repel armed assailants, making it home and successfully cleaning and binding the wound...having a scotch to take the edge off, then getting the melon baller out to make tasty appetisers, only to find that there's a bullet in my melon. That would suck. ;P

Seriously, you're dead right on the cigarette thing! About as popular as 'got the time?'. Is it OK to answer questions like this from a distance - throwing the cigarette from the balcony, for example. Why does the distance need to close?

 

[Touch Of Death]

I always hit them with, "Sorry; I don't smoke."

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I always hit them with, "Sorry; I don't smoke."

If it's a robbery lure, you are probably going to get robbed anyway; but it does keep you from being distracted for a moment.

 

[geezer]

I always hit them with, "Sorry; I don't smoke."

Better to do a pre-emptive attack. Anytime someone asks you the time or for a smoke, act first and rob them!

 

[WC_lun]

One of the things I tell people when I do self defense things is things are worth dying for, but if someone wants to take you to a different location, it has now become about your life. Don't let anyone take you to another location!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

One of the things I tell people when I do self defense things is things are worth dying for, but if someone wants to take you to a different location, it has now become about your life. Don't let anyone take you to another location!

Yep.

 

[Sukerkin]

Better to do a pre-emptive attack. Anytime someone asks you the time or for a smoke, act first and rob them!

[Master Ken} Stomp the groin ... {/Master Ken}

 

[Cyriacus]

On the ciggie thing, yeah. I feel this may be caused be many Smokers being addicts, who feel guilty about what they do to some degree, and as such, feel inclined towards someone else who seems to fit the same role at a glance.

 

[chinto]

presence of a weapon, in this case a gun, that makes it a deadly force issue!!! I would have used that level of force facing a gun. I want that person unconscious or dead! this person was a deadly threat and not using maximum force is NOT a good idea.
How ever this person managed to deal with the treat with out that much damage to the attacker. remarkable restraint in my opinion!!!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

presence of a weapon, in this case a gun, that makes it a deadly force issue!!! I would have used that level of force facing a gun. I want that person unconscious or dead! this person was a deadly threat and not using maximum force is NOT a good idea.
How ever this person managed to deal with the treat with out that much damage to the attacker. remarkable restraint in my opinion!!!

I'm not saying your way is wrong; there is no way to know. But since statistically, most armed robberies do NOT end in homicide, one can 'play the odds' and say that it is generally safer overall to comply with an armed robber's demands unless there is a strong reason to believe one is about to be killed regardless. While statistics only apply to groups accurately and not to individual cases, everyone has to decide for themselves in any given situation whether or not it is time to flame on. One 'trigger' I believe is highly important, which this victim apparently sussed out on their own, was that being moved to another place by the armed robber was a strong indication that they were in fact going to be killed, and they acted accordingly based on that information. I feel their choices were wise throughout the episode, based on what I have been able to read (with the exception of going down to give the man a cigarette).