Shorinji Kempo???

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Does this mean I need to change my Psuedonym?

 

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
Does this mean I need to change my Psuedonym?

Up to you, but know that you mark yourself out as not knowing any Japanese every time you log on.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Yes, but only visitors to this thread will know.

 

[arnisador]

We've had this discussion before as jujitsu vs. jujutsu. Like it or not, the former is an accepted term in the States, even if the latter should be the term that's used.

 

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
Yes, but only visitors to this thread will know.

What does that matter? Surely it's better to be accurate for its own sake?

 

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by arnisador
We've had this discussion before as jujitsu vs. jujutsu. Like it or not, the former is an accepted term in the States, even if the latter should be the term that's used.

When you say "like it or not", you're implying that the people who frequent this board can't improve their knowledge, and start using the correct term. The thing about "jujutsu" vs. "jiu-jitsu", etc., is that "jiujitsu" is based on an older form of Romanisation. This is why "budokwai" is still used in the UK.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

As an American, I intend to exercise my free speech rights to mispell words, misuse grammar, and mangle spelling and pronunciation of non-English words.

And if that labels me as an ignorant and ugly American...well...well...I guess I'll just go to McDonalds and have a Happy Meal.

 

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
As an American, I intend to exercise my free speech rights to mispell words, misuse grammar, and mangle spelling and pronunciation of non-English words.

And if that labels me as an ignorant and ugly American...well...well...I guess I'll just go to McDonalds and have a Happy Meal.

Guess you'll have to.
I didn't know such freedoms extended to deliberate error?

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Being American means having the right to be stupid! Don't you guys have the "Jerry Springer Show" on TV in Japan? If not, you can never really understand American culture and how we exercise our freedom to be stupid.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
I didn't know such freedoms extended to deliberate error?

I should say they do, but I don't think these are deliberate errors. The use of -ka is probably due to ignorance, but jujitsu is from an older period when the Romanization was done differently.

I've argued in the other thread that jujitsu is an incorrect transliteration but is a correct current English term, often used to describe diplomacy ("Putin's strategic jujitsu in the former Central Asian republics"). It's been adopted into English. In the Kenpo community, I'd say Kenpoka has been adopted. English is like that--we (mis-)adopt words all the time!

 

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
Being American means having the right to be stupid! Don't you guys have the "Jerry Springer Show" on TV in Japan? If not, you can never really understand American culture and how we exercise our freedom to be stupid.

Yes, "Jerry Springer" is shown over here. BTW, Jerry is British.
I still don't understand why you'd want to write something you know is incorrect? Don't just say it's an American perogative, as that's a copout; please explain your motivation in detail.
TIA,

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Many words in English are borrowed from other languages. American English borrows from other languages and we often change the spelling and pronounciation of those words as well as our own words over time.

I guess Kenpoka is an English word now...

Anyway, I think I've dragged this thread too far off topic and I'm going to stop now.

 

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
I guess Kenpoka is an English word now...

But it's not. C'mon: admit it: until I told you otherwise, you thought that "kempoka" was a Japanese word, didn't you? As with "gi" and "jujitsu". But they are not; they are just plain wrong. See the difference?

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

OK, I said I was done. But now you are getting personal!

The truth is that I didn't care whether or not it was Japanese or not. Americans who know what Kenpo is know that a Kenpoka is someone who studies Kenpo. Thank you for educating me about the topic. I am a better person now.

OK? Now I'm done.

Shouldn't this forum be about Shorinji Kempo???

 

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by arnisador
It's been adopted into English. In the Kenpo community, I'd say Kenpoka has been adopted. English is like that--we (mis-)adopt words all the time!

But "kenpoka" hasn't been adopted: admit it; people use this non-existent word because they mistakenly think it's Japanese. Same with "gi"; in official publications, the words are italicised to show that they're being used as is from the Japanese; except in Japanese, neither word actually exists.

 

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
OK, I said I was done. But now you are getting personal!

How am I getting personal? I'd just like to an anser to the question.

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
The truth is that I didn't care whether or not it was Japanese or not. Americans who know what Kenpo is know that a Kenpoka is someone who studies Kenpo. Thank you for educating me about the topic. I am a better person now.

But they're not. A person who practices Kempo is called a Kenshi. "Kempoka" is not a word.

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
Shouldn't this forum be about Shorinji Kempo???

And those who practice Shorinji Kempo are called Shorinji Kenshi.

 

[Michael Billings]

I actually have never heard aloud the word "Kenpoka", but have seen it's acceptance through common usage.

Another example of this is "disrespect" ... drives me nuts!!! Much like "Kenpopoka" is used now Kimpatsu. We do not have to like it, but the language changes with time to include words that are identifiable within the culture where they are used. No one is trying to get you to use "kenpoka", "kenpoist", not "kenpo guys" (which I personally prefer.) Actually, as a Kenpo practitioner in the United States, I have been called worse.

It is not even an "agree to disagree" issue. Rather culture specific, which cannot be "judged" or corrected without the context.

In the meantime, Kenshi, by common practice would not even be recognizable most places in the world ... but I do not mind at all, either you referring to yourself or others by that term ... just do not insist that we use it.

Respectfully,
-Michael

 

[Michael Billings]

... I was learning about Shorinji Kenpo, can ya'll get back to it.

Thanks,
-MB

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
But "kenpoka" hasn't been adopted: admit it; people use this non-existent word because they mistakenly think it's Japanese. Same with "gi"; in official publications, the words are italicised to show that they're being used as is from the Japanese; except in Japanese, neither word actually exists.

I think the case is strongest for jujitsu. But as a practical matter, Kenpoka is widely used and understood in the American martial arts world. (One also sees Kenpoist.) I think it is at least in the process of becoming accepted.

The -ka is used as a suffix (mis-?)adopted from the Japanese. You'll see it added onto all sorts of arts--I've seen people talk about kung fu-ka and these are people who understand that it's a Japanese suffix and a Chinese art.

So, I sort of agree with you but also see what the practice is here in the States!

 

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
IMuch like "Kenpopoka" is used now Kimpatsu.

Not in Japanese, it isn't.

Originally posted by Michael Billings
We do not have to like it, but the language changes with time to include words that are identifiable within the culture where they are used. No one is trying to get you to use "kenpoka", "kenpoist", not "kenpo guys" (which I personally prefer.)

Not possible in Japanese, as i explained above. "-ka" as a suffix can only be used with "-do".

Originally posted by Michael Billings
Actually, as a Kenpo practitioner in the United States, I have been called worse.

Yeah, I get that all the time. But this is a family forum and the terms are not repeatable here.

Originally posted by Michael Billings
It is not even an "agree to disagree" issue. Rather culture specific, which cannot be "judged" or corrected without the context.

Yes: Japanese culture. Use the language correctly, so that your Japanese instructors can understand you.

Originally posted by Michael Billings
In the meantime, Kenshi, by common practice would not even be recognizable most places in the world ... but I do not mind at all, either you referring to yourself or others by that term ... just do not insist that we use it.

What do you mean by "most places in the world"? Shorinji Kempo is extant in over 30 countries worldwide now, and we all use "Kenshi". Conversely "kempoka" is not understandable in the one country where it matters: Japan. I shall continue to call people out on their misuse of the language, because that's how consciousness-raising works.