Direction

[NotQuiteDead]

Boxing employs no blocks? No plamed jabs in your world eh? Covering's always been employed in the sparring though.

If you bothered to read my post, you would know I wasn't talking about boxing, but mixed martial arts.

Backfist and hammer fist too.

Backfists are extremely rare, and I've never seen a standing hammer fist in mma. Notice I said "rarely using any punches other than...", not that no other punches were used.

The shin's listed as an alternate attacking tool, and the nerve cluster's well known.

"Alternate" isn't the same as "primary".

That wasn't really a priority on anyone's list til 1990.

And what exaclty does that have to do with my post about adapting to mixed martial arts?

Not relevant to the discussion. The question was, what's TKD's direction?

Again, reading my post would solve many of the issues you have with them. I was explaining what I meant about my comment from another thread that you quoted, and that quote happened to be about tkd in mma.

It's tiresome to have to argue against this kind of elaborite strawman.

I'm not using a straw man argument. I never said "Tae kwon do is this" or "tae kwon do is that", I ASKED YOU a question. You are really having problems comprehending my posts aren't you? You're making a hell of a lot of assumptions about my posts.

 

[FearlessFreep]

A couple observations:

First: My original question was about the direction of TKD as a Martial Art for self-defense and combat vs TKD as a Martial Sport, as it seemed to me from reading the WTF site that all they cared about was the sport (which, as I have learned is really all they care about anyway so no biggie). As a result, the use of TKD in UFC matches is...who cares?

Second: UFC != MMA. I've seen matches in three organizations that are classified as "MMA": Pride, K1, and UFC. They use different rules and different ways of scoring which leads to different tactics and strategies. So what? They are just sports, they are a far cry from a serious combat/self-defense scenario. What "works" in one doesn't always work in the other, so it's sorta silly to worry that what works or doesn't work in a UFC or Pride fight means much in what's going to work in a real-world encounter. (To me the best example of that is Hapkido. I've read a lot of posts here and other places by bouncers and LEO's who have used SJM effectively in their jobs, yet SJM is not allowed by UFC rules so does that mean SJM is useless? No. Simply that the sport has rules so the fighters tailor their technique and tactics to the rules and, like all sports, it's artifical but fun to watch, but don't take it too seriously) And UFC, like all sports, goes through cycle of what's dominant and what's not. When I hear the term MMA, though, I think of someone who studies *all* of an art, not just a few hand strikes from boxing and a kick from Muy Thai and a take down from BJJ. For example, I do mostly TKD although for self-defense I've learned some SJM from Hapkido and some throws and rolls from Judo, and at least one takedown defense (I guess from BJJ) etc.. yet I don't consider myself a Mixed Martial Artist simply because I know a few convenient techniques from a few arts. I don't study and train in Hapkido, or Judo, or anything else. Anyway, people who actually study/train multiple martial arts as a way of being well rounded martial artists able to handle many scenarios have a lot more of my respect then people who pick up a few techniques from a few arts for the sake of sport-fighting and call it "Mixed Martial Arts"

Third: To the best of my knowldege, Choi's intention with Tae Kwon Do was just to give the Korean's a martial art to call their own. As a whole, TKD is heavily based on Shotokan; if you want to know "what was Choi's intention" then you could probably look at Shotokan. Olympic style sparring and point-sparring are just sports for training (or for sport itself) and don't encompass all of the martial art itself (an easy way to realize the difference is that basic TKD forms include strikes that are illegal in sparring and defenses againts attacks that would also illegal)

Couple of minor details:

Use of shin vs instep: this is a philosphical differences between Muy Thai and TKD and both have valid points but they sorta contradict. So to say that once must be used over the other is a bit silly

Use of sprawl: I've seen in UFC fights some very effective defenses against an attempt to shoot-in that were not sprawls, so again, a sprawl as a means of defense as any sort of litmus test is a bit silly

On balance: From two feet one can move in any direction. From one foot, with the weight back on the rear foot, mobility is limited

So I guess if one wants to come up with a litmus test list of 'is this what Choi had in mind for a TKD fighter' the answer would be "not really" but if that litmus test is gleaned from the latest UFC fight...I don't think that means anything as far as TKD as a martial art

 

[Marginal]

If you bothered to read my post, you would know I wasn't talking about boxing, but mixed martial arts.

Which is still strange because it's off-topic regardless.

Notice I said "rarely using any punches other than...", not that no other punches were used.

"Rarely" means "never".

"Alternate" isn't the same as "primary".

Yes, one's for use a few inches farther away, and the mechanics don't otherwise change.

And what exaclty does that have to do with my post about adapting to mixed martial arts?

*Sigh*

Again, reading my post would solve many of the issues you have with them.

I did. That's why I'm having issues.

I was explaining what I meant about my comment from another thread that you quoted, and that quote happened to be about tkd in mma.

As I was simply noting that you really, really like to name drop, the context is moot. If you really want to get into that, you'd best read my posts prior to those in that particular thread. Weren't really hitting anyone with a dose of sharp cold and previously unknown reality there.

I'm not using a straw man argument. I never said "Tae kwon do is this" or "tae kwon do is that", I ASKED YOU a question. You are really having problems comprehending my posts aren't you? You're making a hell of a lot of assumptions about my posts.

You assume what the founder intended, I assume you meant to use him as a fulcrum.

 

[shesulsa]

Moderator Note:
Please, return to the original topic.

-G Ketchmark / shesulsa
-MT Senior Moderator-

 

[NotQuiteDead]

Moderator Note:
Please, return to the original topic.

-G Ketchmark / shesulsa
-MT Senior Moderator- Today 12:29 AM

You got it. It wasn't my intention to derail the thread, I just posted a single comment about something that I thought was odd. I hope you can understand why I was replying to Marginal, who seems to be having trouble understanding my position on several things. Marginal clearly demonstrated his/her inability to understand that different people involved with mixed martial arts are in fact different people and thus have different opinions. I think that's what led to a lot of his/her assumptions about me and my posts...

 

[Marginal]

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