Self-defense cases. Are they aikidokas?

[jorgemp]

 

[K-man]

I doubt there is any Aikido in these videos. Maybe some jujutsu especially in the first two videos. Kicking the guy on the ground is not the way aikidoka would go. A standing arm pin would effectively hold him until he cools ... no need for kicks. Number two is a good illustration of redirecting which is an aikido principle but once again he was throwing a few punches that would be out of place in many aikido schools. Number three was more a preemptive strike and the guy way have hit his head on the ground. Either way he was dazed and the security guy was well controlled as he didn't hit once the guy was down. He removed the weapon and made sure the guy was ok.

Sorry to say, I didn't see a lot of aikido, except possibly number two.
:asian:

 

[jorgemp]

... Kicking the guy on the ground is not the way aikidoka would go. ...he was throwing a few punches that would be out of place in many aikido schools.

An aikidoka could use kicks and punches in a street fight, exactly as Hector Lombard, judoka, uses boxing skills in his MMA fights.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I doubt there is any Aikido in these videos. Maybe some jujutsu especially in the first two videos. Kicking the guy on the ground is not the way aikidoka would go. A standing arm pin would effectively hold him until he cools ... no need for kicks. Number two is a good illustration of redirecting which is an aikido principle but once again he was throwing a few punches that would be out of place in many aikido schools. Number three was more a preemptive strike and the guy way have hit his head on the ground. Either way he was dazed and the security guy was well controlled as he didn't hit once the guy was down. He removed the weapon and made sure the guy was ok.

Sorry to say, I didn't see a lot of aikido, except possibly number two.
:asian:

The doorman did the right thing.

 

[K-man]

An aikidoka could use kicks and punches in a street fight, exactly as Hector Lombard, judoka, uses boxing skills in his MMA fights.

Of course he could, but what you have just demonstrated is your total lack of understanding of the philosophy of Aikido.

 

[RTKDCMB]

An aikidoka could use kicks and punches in a street fight, exactly as Hector Lombard, judoka, uses boxing skills in his MMA fights.

The difference is MMA is a mix of styles, Aikido is not.

 

[Chris Parker]

Jorgemp, I suppose the question to ask is, why did you think that there was Aikido present in those videos?

 

[blindsage]

Atemi is a part of Aikido, and was clearly taught by Ueshiba, whether a specific school teaches it or not.

 

[K-man]

Atemi is a part of Aikido, and was clearly taught by Ueshiba, whether a specific school teaches it or not.

This is very true but the atemi in aikido is not the wild punch as seen in the video. You are right that not all schools teach atemi but it is also true that of those that do, many don't teach atemi the way it was used in Ueshiba's time. The atemi in aikido is a strategic strike, not an opportunistic one.
:asian:

 

[blindsage]

Absolutely, but it was there. Now, the videos of course aren't Aikido atemi, but there is a lot more room for atemi in Aikido application than most Aikidoka's use, or often even realize.

 

[oaktree]

I honestly think the people uses the ole' grab and swing him routine. I suppose if you want to think that the principles of distance, timing, redirection atemi are there well you can find all that in a boxing ring too but it wouldn't be Aikido.

 

[jorgemp]

Jorgemp, I suppose the question to ask is, why did you think that there was Aikido present in those videos?

Probably those three men are trained in aikido and other martial arts. Currently, most people have some knowledge of diverse martial arts.

 

[K-man]

Probably those three men are trained in aikido and other martial arts. Currently, most people have some knowledge of diverse martial arts.

Apart from perhaps a little jujutsu in the second one there is nothing that looks like aikido. The third video has just one punch. As Chris asked, why do you think it is aikido? The fact that some people cross train is not evidence. I would suggest that many more people cross train BJJ than aikido.
:asian:

 

[colemcm]

If atemi is taught, it's more likely to be taught to elicit a reaction than it is to actually strike.

 

[K-man]

If atemi is taught, it's more likely to be taught to elicit a reaction than it is to actually strike.

True to some extent. Certainly it can be a strike like a preemptive back fist to the head to elicit a response to control an arm but it may also be a distraction as a strike after you have a hold to take the person's mind from resisting what you are about to do. In reality, if that first strike is successful it may be all over but in reality from an aikido perspective this back fist is really a feint, so I would actually slow it down a fraction to allow the person time to raise his arm. The third type of strike is at the end, as a finishing technique, if that is where you need to go.

And of course that is not including the times when you might use a kick or a knee.
:asian:

 

[blindsage]

If atemi is taught, it's more likely to be taught to elicit a reaction than it is to actually strike.

No, not necessarily.

 

[Chris Parker]

Probably those three men are trained in aikido and other martial arts. Currently, most people have some knowledge of diverse martial arts.

Hmm, let's try again… why do you think that anyone in those clips are trained in Aikido, or, indeed, any martial art at all? Is it just that you expect most people, and anyone who gets involved in a fight, has some training (which is far from the reality), or that you expect every martial artist to have some training in all, or at least, many systems? What do you understand Aikido to actually be, what are the hallmarks you see here that indicate any connection to Aikido, other than a (honestly) rather baseless assumption that, well, they might have done some at some point?

I'm really just trying to understand what you see here, and where you're coming from. As there really isn't anything close to Aikido seen here, knowing why you thought they might show some can help us put you in the right direction for future experiences.

 

[donnaTKD]

don't know about the aikido but there were some bits of muay thai in there and not a lot else.............

doorman did the right thing though which was good to see - why carry a bat if you don't know how to use one properly ?????

 

[drop bear]

Hmm, let's try again… why do you think that anyone in those clips are trained in Aikido, or, indeed, any martial art at all? Is it just that you expect most people, and anyone who gets involved in a fight, has some training (which is far from the reality), or that you expect every martial artist to have some training in all, or at least, many systems? What do you understand Aikido to actually be, what are the hallmarks you see here that indicate any connection to Aikido, other than a (honestly) rather baseless assumption that, well, they might have done some at some point?

I'm really just trying to understand what you see here, and where you're coming from. As there really isn't anything close to Aikido seen here, knowing why you thought they might show some can help us put you in the right direction for future experiences.

Because people were redirecting force and throwing guys around.

Of course just because akido do that does not give them a monopoly on it.

This guy used akido though.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r90w-AXESIk

Otherwise plenty of martial arts has that kind of redirecting force type throw.

 

[Chris Parker]

I was specifically asking Jorgemp, and am still wanting to hear from him, but okay.

Because people were redirecting force and throwing guys around.

No, I'd disagree with that assessment of the clips. There was almost no redirecting of force in any of the clips, really… and the only "throwing guys around" was more grab and spin… not really anything even "martial arts", let alone Aikido.

Of course just because akido do that does not give them a monopoly on it.

No, but Aikido has a specific approach to how they do things.

This guy used akido though.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r90w-AXESIk

Er… okay. Good for him. I don't think anyone was doubting Aikido's viability on a technical level here… so not really sure why this clip was posted. The question was specific to the clips in the first post.

Otherwise plenty of martial arts has that kind of redirecting force type throw.

Well, all that's shown there is Kote Gaeshi, and sure, many arts have versions of it… not always as throws, not always as any type of "redirected force", or anything similar, so the rest of that description isn't necessarily correct. For the record.