Scenario/Role play

[Blotan Hunka]

Where I live, 911 goes right to our local PD. If you call the non-emergency line you get the same guy that awnsers the 911 line.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

In Alma we have 911 for emergencies and a local number for non-emergency related issues.

 

[bluemtn]

There's 911 in my area, and if you're driving, there's a number to dial if there's an accident for the state police. I've never had to dial 911, so I don't know if it's mainly fire and ambulance or everything. The only time I had to call for state police was when a deer and another car was involved... I guess I know what research I need to do soon!

 

[MJS]

I dispatch for the City of Middltown CT., and the town of Portland, CT. We take care of Police, Fire and EMS service. Anyone that dials 911 from either location, from a landline, I get the call in Middletown. There are routine lines as well, that come into the dispatch center. The majority of 911 cell calls that I get, are mostly from people in those two locations. However, as its been said, depending on what tower is hit, makes a difference. I've taken cell calls from the next town over, but its close enough that I still get the call. We have a GPS system that provides us with a ballpark idea as to location, but I do not rely on that 100%.

Mike

 

[Drac]

We have a GPS system that provides us with a ballpark idea as to location, but I do not rely on that 100%.Mike

The township purchased a system last year that brings up an actual skyview of the area and MARKS all the roads.Its currently available in the dispatch center only at this time, the cruisers will get the package in the near future....

 

[scottt]

Let me ask you guys what you would do in this scenario:

Your next door neighbour is having an argument with his son. You can hear the yelling escalate to the point where physical threats are being made and you hear the father say "I can't believe you just hit me". You go next door to investigate and knock on the front door, you are greated by one of the four sons. You are on a first name basis with his father, acquaintances, not necesarrily friends.

1. What items do you bring with you from home?
2. How do you approach this conversation with the 14 year old?
3. What are the environmental factors you consider?

I'll go back to the beginning to reply to this one. I realize there is a lot of discussion in between, but in answer to the question:
1. my first thought was to take my cel phone. second thought - good shoes and comfortable, practical clothing. Who knows what will happen.
2. "hi, is your dad home?"
3. environment is very important.
Firstly, I live in Canada, and not in a crime-ridden area. If it was a neighbour I knew reasonably well I might actually do this. My goal would be to keep myself safe, and to create a diversion from the situation. Domestic disputes rise and fall without intervention all the time. If I can come over and sit for an hour talking about deer hunting or ATV's or whatever, and be in the way then this might be what I am trying to do. If I get the impression that the emotions have subsided then I would feel ok just leaving.

HOWEVER I might not feel ok staying or going very far into the house if things look dicey. Then I might ask to borrow something (saw, gallon of gas) and then leave. Then the 911 call might happen. This is where I would be relying on gut instinct.

But that's just me, and I'm much less safety conscious than a lot of other people. I'll approach people if they are not obviously dangerous.

The key in my mind is that I am not creating any confrontation. Let people's emotions return to a normal state without making a big deal out of things.

 

[jks9199]

'll go back to the beginning to reply to this one. I realize there is a lot of discussion in between, but in answer to the question:
1. my first thought was to take my cel phone. second thought - good shoes and comfortable, practical clothing. Who knows what will happen.
2. "hi, is your dad home?"
3. environment is very important.
Firstly, I live in Canada, and not in a crime-ridden area. If it was a neighbour I knew reasonably well I might actually do this. My goal would be to keep myself safe, and to create a diversion from the situation. Domestic disputes rise and fall without intervention all the time. If I can come over and sit for an hour talking about deer hunting or ATV's or whatever, and be in the way then this might be what I am trying to do. If I get the impression that the emotions have subsided then I would feel ok just leaving.

HOWEVER I might not feel ok staying or going very far into the house if things look dicey. Then I might ask to borrow something (saw, gallon of gas) and then leave. Then the 911 call might happen. This is where I would be relying on gut instinct.

I'm not going to rehash many pages worth of discussion...

But no matter how well you think you know your neighbor, brother, or whoever -- they can be a VERY different person in the heat of a domestic. One of my partners was assaulted by a guy who'd been meek as a lamb a week previously on a DWI arrest when she tried to just talk to him during a domestic dispute.

Beyond that... Like I said, I'm not re-hashing everything. But it's not a good idea to jump into a situation like that unless someone is in imminent danger of serious bodily harm, AND you feel you can intervene safely. Call the police who are paid to do it...

 

[Drac]

But no matter how well you think you know your neighbor, brother, or whoever -- they can be a VERY different person in the heat of a domestic. One of my partners was assaulted by a guy who'd been meek as a lamb a week previously on a DWI arrest when she tried to just talk to him during a domestic dispute

Yes..Not to mention how much alcohol they consumed or some other illegal substance..Also people (like dogs) can be VERY territorial about their home turf..Your mere presense might REALLY set them off..

Beyond that... Like I said, I'm not re-hashing everything. But it's not a good idea to jump into a situation like that unless someone is in imminent danger of serious bodily harm, AND you feel you can intervene safely. Call the police who are paid to do it...

Yes again..If someone is on their front lawn, driveway or a public place and you CAN see that death or serious bodily harm will occure if you do not intervene then DO IT...Advise the PD ASAP of the situation...

 

[scottt]

I'm not going to rehash many pages worth of discussion...

But no matter how well you think you know your neighbor, brother, or whoever -- they can be a VERY different person in the heat of a domestic. One of my partners was assaulted by a guy who'd been meek as a lamb a week previously on a DWI arrest when she tried to just talk to him during a domestic dispute.

Beyond that... Like I said, I'm not re-hashing everything. But it's not a good idea to jump into a situation like that unless someone is in imminent danger of serious bodily harm, AND you feel you can intervene safely. Call the police who are paid to do it...

Yeah, it's hard for me to imagine getting to this point, so I don't think it's likely to start with. All my neighbours have guns too. But the question posed already puts you into the situation. I just don't see any other scenario where I would already be knocking on the door.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

No it doesnt really put you at the door when you think about it. The question is "what do you take with you?". So technically you are at home deciding what to pack.

 

[Drac]

Yeah, it's hard for me to imagine getting to this point, so I don't think it's likely to start with me.

NO ONE imagines that. Not cops, EMT's or Firefighters BUT IT HAPPENS. Got called to one domestic where the wife opened the front door and this nice guy from next door lept off the couch and charged me like a mad elephant..It didn't end well for him..

 

[Tez3]

Going back to the original question on what I'd take with me to ask the neighbours if could they kindly stop knocking each other about, I think I'd take my German Shepherd, full body armour, as many weapons as I could get my hands on, stun grenades, a team of crack SBS ( Royal Marine Commandos, much better than the SAS...sits back and waits for howls from SAS guys tee hee!) local television crew to show everyone how brave I am, maybe even a tank, a flame thrower even,mortars! If it looked as if it might get a bit nasty I'd get the RAF in for an air strike! Way to go! We could take out the whole neighbourhood, that'll teach em!
Or I could just phone the police........ very sensible, not nearly as much fun for me...... ah but it wasn't about me was it? it was about doing the best thing for someone else! Down, ego, down! Son, just call the police!

 

[KenpoTex]

Are you certain that there's not a separate non-emergency number? I cannot imagine that the 911 center wants every single police call for service to come in on 911... There are only so many 911 lines available, and in many cities, it's actually very possible to end up getting a recording on 911 until a line/calltaker is available.

It may not be literally to a desk in the local PD; it might go to the same dispatch center because you use regional dispatch (several areas near me are like that) -- but I'm pretty confident that there is a non-emergency number.

oops...should have been more clear. During "normal business hours" (7-5 I think) you can call the individual departments on a regular line to handle non-emergency issues (inquiries, complaints, reports over the phone, etc.). After hours, if you call you'll get the recording that tells you to dial 911 if you need a police officer to respond (yes, this includes the "loud party" and "barking dog" calls). The 911 center in this area is in it's own building and is a joint-effort between the PD, SD, and the other emergency services. All the calls are taken and dispatched from the same office.

Typically when you call, the first thing you hear is "911 do you have an emergency?" (...etc.) When I call for something that does not require a "lights and sirens" response, I'll say: "no I don't have an emergency, I just need an officer to respond because..."

 

[Drac]

Typically when you call, the first thing you hear is "911 do you have an emergency?" (...etc.) When I call for something that does not require a "lights and sirens" response, I'll say: "no I don't have an emergency, I just need an officer to respond because..."

A verbal domestic usually does not require a Priority 1 response (lights and siren) UNLESS there is a history of verbals that escalated have into a physical confrontation and required serious police action...

 

[Explorer]

Injecting oneself into a domestic dispute is a recipe for disaster. One of the people will certainly turn on you and the liklihood of both turning on you is extremely high. Remember the saying ... "Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread"? It applies to the maximum in this scenario.

IMHO the only time to intervene is when you're sure someone will be maimed or killed if you don't take action. Otherwise it's an issue for the police who are trained to work with these kind of issues.

As for the subjects finding out who called the police ... what are they, clairvoyant? Unless you tell them, they'll never know.

 

[scottt]

No it doesnt really put you at the door when you think about it. The question is "what do you take with you?". So technically you are at home deciding what to pack.

ok. Most of the responses are "I would never do that". If one were sticking one's nose into this, then there is still the question of whether one would take all the weapons one owns, or not. My answer is not, but I think that's because if I felt I needed weapons I would stay home. hmm.

Then there is the imminent danger scenario. If someone is being fatally stabbed and I think I can stop it (?) - I might just take a nice 26" dowel with me. It's a good weapon to me, and not nearly so good for the average (non-MA) person so I'm less afraid of losing it. Oh, and I can buy 2 for less than $5 at the local home improvement store.

 

[Drac]

Then there is the imminent danger scenario. If someone is being fatally stabbed and I think I can stop it (?) - I might just take a nice 26" dowel with me. It's a good weapon to me, and not nearly so good for the average (non-MA) person so I'm less afraid of losing it. Oh, and I can buy 2 for less than $5 at the local home improvement store.

I think I said it before that in cases where death or serious injury may occure unless you interceed DO IT..If you are confident in your skill level GO FOR IT..Yes, I was once present at an MA demo where a dowel was used and my jaw dropped..WOW..Running over to your neighbors and kicking down the door simply because they are having a loud arguement is not a good thing...If you DO decide to go over and see him attempting to do a slice and dice on a family member, give him one for me THEN CALL 911..

 

[Explorer]

OK ... the scenario is ... threat of imminent substantial bodily harm (permanent, lasting damage) or serious bodily harm (death).

Call the police tell them what's going on and what you're going to do ... give them a discription of yourself ... then get to the scene with watever weapon gives you overwhelming advantage and puts you on scene as quickly as possible.

Number 31 of the Laws of Self Defense is a good guide to weapon choice: "Never use a contact weapon (like a stick) when you can use a distance weapon (like a gun), never use pure hand to hand when you can use a contact weapon ... "

My choice would be my either my heavily modified 1911 .45 cal or Baby Eagle .45 cal pistols. The reason I'd choose a gun is I don't know what I'll be facing when I enter the house, the aggressor could be armed with a knife ... and I REALLY don't want to face one of those in a confined space where sticks are kinda hard to work with. And I CERTAINLY don't want to face a knife with a kubaton! The second reason I'd choose a pistol is that it gives me an edge statistically. In the nearly 2,000,000 times per year people in the US successfully defend themselves with a gun ... the trigger is pulled only 2% of the time. This tells me that, 98% of the time, aggressors either give up or clear out when the see a gun ... either case is completely OK. If they run away, don't shoot ... if the aggressor is leaving you are not in imminent danger. You know who they are and the police will track them down.

Make sure when the police arrive that you don't look like the threat. Be ready for the cops to handcuff you when they arrive. They need to sort out a difficult situation and you'll have to be patient. They are trained to do this and you will be helping immensely if you simply co-operate. If you are holding a gun you'll look like the aggressor and they'll approach with theirs drawn, shouting orders. You'll be under adrenal stress and will not be able to hear very well ... you may not even hear their sirens ... so keep your eyes open looking for any sign of them. Be ready to immediately put down your weapon (whatever it is) and allow the police to restrain you.

 

[Drac]

OK ... the scenario is ... threat of imminent substantial bodily harm (permanent, lasting damage) or serious bodily harm (death).

Call the police tell them what's going on and what you're going to do ... give them a discription of yourself ... then get to the scene with watever weapon gives you overwhelming advantage and puts you on scene as quickly as possible.

Promise NOt to be angry if they tell you to stay put...There maybe a unit around the corner

Number 31 of the Laws of Self Defense is a good guide to weapon choice: "Never use a contact weapon (like a stick) when you can use a distance weapon (like a gun), never use pure hand to hand when you can use a contact weapon ."[

An EXCELLENT rule

My choice would be my either my heavily modified 1911 .45 cal or Baby Eagle .45 cal pistols. The reason I'd choose a gun is I don't know what I'll be facing when I enter the house, the aggressor could be armed with a knife ... and I REALLY don't want to face one of those in a confined space where sticks are kinda hard to work with. And I CERTAINLY don't want to face a knife with a kubaton!

Make sure to tell the dispatch that your are responding over there with your firearm...

Make sure when the police arrive that you don't look like the threat. Be ready for the cops to handcuff you when they arrive. They need to sort out a difficult situation and you'll have to be patient. They are trained to do this and you will be helping immensely if you simply co-operate. If you are holding a gun you'll look like the aggressor and they'll approach with theirs drawn, shouting orders. You'll be under adrenal stress and will not be able to hear very well ... you may not even hear their sirens ... so keep your eyes open looking for any sign of them. Be ready to immediately put down your weapon (whatever it is) and allow the police to restrain you.

An EXCELLENT paragraph Explorer..Bravo

 

[scottt]

Call the police tell them what's going on and what you're going to do ... give them a discription of yourself ... then get to the scene with watever weapon gives you overwhelming advantage and puts you on scene as quickly as possible.

Number 31 of the Laws of Self Defense is a good guide to weapon choice: "Never use a contact weapon (like a stick) when you can use a distance weapon (like a gun), never use pure hand to hand when you can use a contact weapon ... "

well... Since I live about 800km due North of you (~480mi, and a bit North of the border) the repercussions for me would be quite different.

If I told the police I was going to my neighbour's house with a firearm I would definitely be arrested, and they may send a cruiser by to check out the domestic dispute.

Anyway, that all plays a part too. Since I know that there is lots of hunting around here and firearms are readily available, that plays a big factor in making the decision in the first place. Know your environment.

Interesting statistics quoted there too. Are they real, and can I quote them? Is there also a number of unsuccessful defences, or numbers on unarmed defences? I have been casually looking for more stats on attacks and whatnot.

st