Scenario training...

jks9199 said:
Students should always end with a success -- and should never be "dead." The scenario may be stopped -- but I NEVER want a student practicing being dead. That tends to come rather naturally and doesn't need to be trained.

There is a small exception; students in a practical scenario testing where they are required to demonstrate particular skills may fail the scenario, and depending on the course of training, may end up failing the training. But testing is really a separate thing from training...
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I did think of one other situation where you're going to have a student "die" or otherwise become incapacitated; if you're working on extracting an injured person like an officer rescue scenario or practicing getting someone hurt out of an active shooter situation. I've done things where one person on an entry team is designated as injured, and the team has to get him out. For a civilian take -- it might be a school or workplace shooter scenario, and the participants have to figure out how to get the injured person out safely.
 
K-man said:
I understand that training for the ring you might train 'what if' drills but that is hardly scenario training in the way the term is normally used.
:asian:
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We are going to be training up some cops soon which will be closer to what you are suggesting. But that will just be a two on one scrap and we will probably leave the cop stuff to them.

Basically they will either be able to throw a set of handcuffs on us or they won't. If they can't we will get them to a point where they can.
 
drop bear said:
We are going to be training up some cops soon which will be closer to what you are suggesting. But that will just be a two on one scrap and we will probably leave the cop stuff to them.

Basically they will either be able to throw a set of handcuffs on us or they won't. If they can't we will get them to a point where they can.
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Once again...you keep using that word (scenario). It does not mean what you think it means.

Again...not true scenario training as the

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drop bear said:
Basically they will either be able to throw a set of handcuffs on us or they won't. If they can't we will get them to a point where they can.
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You will huh......How much training do you have in this? Do you know these cops General Orders and Use if force rules?
 
drop bear said:
I assume they know them. Why would I be trying to teach grandmas to suck eggs?
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I have no idea what that means but
If your going to claim to be teaching law enforcement you may want to at least know what they can and cant do. For example no point in teaching them a technique they are not allowed to use
 
ballen0351 said:
I have no idea what that means but
If your going to claim to be teaching law enforcement you may want to at least know what they can and cant do. For example no point in teaching them a technique they are not allowed to use
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They are not potatoes I am pretty sure they can sing out if we are training something they are not allowed to use.
 
drop bear said:
We are going to be training up some cops soon which will be closer to what you are suggesting. But that will just be a two on one scrap and we will probably leave the cop stuff to them.

Basically they will either be able to throw a set of handcuffs on us or they won't. If they can't we will get them to a point where they can.
Click to expand...
I've seen a few examples of this happening but in reality it is a waste of time. Certainly they wouldn't be doing it in Victoria unless the police are doing it in their own time. Why would you grapple someone to put on cuffs and risk injury. Police are trained to use other methods to obtain compliance.

Even if they did it, are you allowed to punch then? Are they allowed to punch you? If the answer to either question is 'no' then I would ask, what is the point of the exercise? If the answer is 'yes', then is it realistic? If you resist arrest or if you assault police the courts are not too impressed.

ballen0351 said:
You will huh......How much training do you have in this? Do you know these cops General Orders and Use if force rules?
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I'm sure the real answer is ... "No".

drop bear said:
I assume they know them. Why would I be trying to teach grandmas to suck eggs?
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Not only do I not know why you would teach anyone to suck eggs, I don't know why cops would be learning grappling in order to cuff. It doesn't make sense. If the guy has mates there is no way the cops would be going to the ground and if the guy is alone then they have baton, spray and taser to stop the guy. The police do very little H2H training now because when they did that sort of training there were more injuries in training than on the street, and that was expensive in manpower and compensation.

ballen0351 said:
I have no idea what that means but
If your going to claim to be teaching law enforcement you may want to at least know what they can and cant do. For example no point in teaching them a technique they are not allowed to use
Click to expand...
In reality they can use any reasonable force as police use of force to obtain an arrest is specifically included in legislation. However there are things like using pressure points against protestors that are specifically discouraged.
:asian:
 
K-man said:
I've seen a few examples of this happening but in reality it is a waste of time. Certainly they wouldn't be doing it in Victoria unless the police are doing it in their own time. Why would you grapple someone to put on cuffs and risk injury. Police are trained to use other methods to obtain compliance.

Even if they did it, are you allowed to punch then? Are they allowed to punch you? If the answer to either question is 'no' then I would ask, what is the point of the exercise? If the answer is 'yes', then is it realistic? If you resist arrest or if you assault police the courts are not too impressed.


I'm sure the real answer is ... "No".


Not only do I not know why you would teach anyone to suck eggs, I don't know why cops would be learning grappling in order to cuff. It doesn't make sense. If the guy has mates there is no way the cops would be going to the ground and if the guy is alone then they have baton, spray and taser to stop the guy. The police do very little H2H training now because when they did that sort of training there were more injuries in training than on the street, and that was expensive in manpower and compensation.


In reality they can use any reasonable force as police use of force to obtain an arrest is specifically included in legislation. However there are things like using pressure points against protestors that are specifically discouraged.
:asian:
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So that they can actually handle situations I suppose.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TFcz1PoTTk8

And their training so far has been pretty awful. Probably because people use the " you can just pepper spray them excuse"

Which is quite simply unfair on the police.

Real training will give them a chance.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mnwi6wO03As&has_verified=1&client=mv-google&layout=tablet
 
drop bear said:
So that they can actually handle situations I suppose.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TFcz1PoTTk8

And their training so far has been pretty awful. Probably because people use the " you can just pepper spray them excuse"

Which is quite simply unfair on the police.

Real training will give them a chance.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mnwi6wO03As&has_verified=1&client=mv-google&layout=tablet
Click to expand...

So a few YouTube clips and your now an expert on police training? You able to say their training is crap off of a few seconds of film taken out of context and not know what is really going on huh. Damn that's impressive.
 
The "sport" guys enjoy sport. They try to do scenario training for spot. The SD guys may not care about the "sport scenario training" that sport guys call it "sparring/wrestling".
 
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