Saddam caught?!!!

[Ender]

Originally posted by PAUL
I heard that 90% of all statistics were made up. Care to post your sources for these stats.

Washington Post December 2002

....Perhaps expectedly, Republican Congressional members see a liberal bias by a 80 percent to 9 percent margin, while unaffiliated voters share this view by a 48 percent to 28 percent margin. Democrats are divided; 53 percent see a liberal bias and 36 percent disagree.

ok..I was off by a point or two.*G

 

[MisterMike]

Originally posted by PAUL
Catching Saddam and our reasoning for the war are seperate issues.

Yes...its good we caught him (if its really him and not some imposter...hopefully wa can prove this w/o a shadow of doubt).

No...it wouldn't be exactly right for you to use this opportunity to throw out pro-bush rhetoric. Bush didn't catch S**t...our military did.

Plus, we didn't go to war to "catch Saddam."

You want to see the real reason for war...just look at who the oil contracts are being doled out to.

Oh Pah-leazzzze..


This same old Bush-bashing nonsense gets old reaaallll fast. The "War for Oil" and "I support our military but not the Commander in Chief". I guess the General didn't either, nor 599 of the other 600 troops caught him. Only the one.

I can see where some people draw the line. The didn't vote for this president, so no credit is due to him at any time.



Show's this country is really ready to get flushed down the toilet.

 

[Makalakumu]

Originally posted by MisterMike
This same old Bush-bashing nonsense gets old reaaallll fast. The "War for Oil" and "I support our military but not the Commander in Chief"

If anyone can convince me that this war is NOT about OIL I will greatly appreciate it. In just about every place I look this blatant conflict of interest is poking out of the propaganda.

Yet, I remember when I was a kid and it felt good to be an American. The more I learn about the horror our elected officials inflict on the world, the more ashamed and furious I feel. Perhaps I am mistaken though. Perhaps you have the answers that will restore my good faith in our country. By all means, fill me in. Fill all who doubt with this wisdom and correct our maladjusted beliefs.

upnorth

 

[rmcrobertson]

Um...ah...Ender, I'm afraid that the LA Times guy--at least, so far as your quotes would indicate--is talking about a) the public's PERCEPTION of the paper, not whether or not there really is such bias, and b) the mishandling of a particular story to create the IMPRESSION of such bias.

As for the Congressional stats, well, they don't prove jack about what's actually going on. They show that a) the great majority of Republicans, who are hardly impartial observers, PERCEIVE such a bias, and b) that Democrats sorta do and sorta don't agree in that PERCEPTION.

The question of the existence of such bias is a different question, much as the question of the way Americans PERCEIVE crime as increasing is different from the question of whether or not crime actually is.

And as for the notion that the country's about to go down the crapper---where's this coming from? I don't buy that for a second, any more than I buy the notion that we are in so much danger we should suspend civil liberties. Why the anxiety?

 

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
Why the anxiety?

You know...so we don't unpatriotically 'question' the powers that be, of course!

 

[Nightingale]

if we try him here in the US, even if the entire trial is televised, nobody outside of the US (and many people inside the US) would ever believe it was a fair trial.

Give him to the UN to be tried for war crimes under the Geneva Convention.

 

[Makalakumu]

Originally posted by arnisador
Put him in a cell with Manuel Noriega and give them a pack of playing cards.

Hey, great idea! Then they can reminisce about the times when the Americans liked their dictatorial ways...

 

[rmcrobertson]

Nice idea. Ship his fat *** to the Hague, put him in the cell next to Milosevitch.

I'm only sorry we can't stick that senile so-and-so, Pinochet, right next to 'em, along with the Maximum Leader of North Korea, the good old dead Original Ayatollah (OK, well, they did drop him out of his coffin duing the procession...sweet), and a coupla others.

Maybe for these guys, what we need is not so much the concept of the jail as that of the zoo....you know, a humane but smallish natural habitat, with a big PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS sign and a moat...

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by Nightingale
Give him to the UN to be tried for war crimes under the Geneva Convention.

Did Iraq sign the Geneva Convention? If not, can they be held to it, and tried under it?

As to the UN, considering the reputation they have of being do nothings, and their own peacekeeping forces corrupt, can they be trusted to actually do justice?

As to the "War for Oil" thing, no, it wasn't about the oil...though there will be alot of folks in the 'in crowd' making a ton of cash off this war. No, they aint proffiteirs, just good businessmen. Like Halbyurtin, or whatever Dicks gang-o-buds is.

 

[Nightingale]

Yes, they signed it.

 

[Makalakumu]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
As to the "War for Oil" thing, no, it wasn't about the oil...though there will be alot of folks in the 'in crowd' making a ton of cash off this war. No, they aint proffiteirs, just good businessmen. Like Halbyurtin, or whatever Dicks gang-o-buds is.

This war is about oil and so was the last gulf war. Its about a blatent conflict of interest that should be enough to make any American puke their guts out. One of the biggest oil companies that buys oil out of Iraq is Occidental Oil. This is a company that is based out of the Moscow and is primarily owned by Bush family. When Haliburton has rebuilt the oil fields in Iraq, the price of oil/barrel that Occidental buys will drop dramatically. Meanwhile our prices remain the same. Billions will be the result. For crying out loud, just look at their website!!!!!!

 

[rmcrobertson]

Well, Milosevitch's tail remains in a cell, at The Hague....

Sometimes, we forget that justice is meant to be slow...but only in the sense that an elephant is slow, careful and deliberate.

And after all, if he'd got shot, we wouldn't have had that beautiful picture of Hussein, looking humiliated, have some dentist from like Teaneck, New Jersey go through his mouth with a tongue depressor...

Hey, here's a happy thought...

I bet he got cavity searched.

Now if you were the guy with the rubber glove, would you feel good or bad about that?

Imagine...you're 87, and you can still go down to the local pub, have a ccoupla brewskis and sound off at the whippersnappers:" Oh yeah? You've seen everything? Well, I once stuck my thumb and forefinger..."

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by upnorthkyosa
This war is about oil and so was the last gulf war. Its about a blatent conflict of interest that should be enough to make any American puke their guts out. One of the biggest oil companies that buys oil out of Iraq is Occidental Oil. This is a company that is based out of the Moscow and is primarily owned by Bush family. When Haliburton has rebuilt the oil fields in Iraq, the price of oil/barrel that Occidental buys will drop dramatically. Meanwhile our prices remain the same. Billions will be the result. For crying out loud, just look at their website!!!!!!

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?&threadid=6909

We get less than 11% of our oil from the Mid-East.

See : http://www.ott.doe.gov/facts/archives/fotw246.shtml
If Oil is the big issue here, seems we should be dropping some bombs on Toronto.

This shows a different picture:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/rankings/crudebycountry.htm

A 3rd view, which supports the 1st:
http://www.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/facts/favorites/fcvt_fotw246.shtml


This site has some different info, and many facts. It claims 17% of US oil imports in July 2003 came from the Persian Gulf.
http://ogm.utah.gov/oilgas/FACTS/facts_list.htm

I'm sorry, the 'oil' argument is wrong.

Now, the 'profitering bit, thats a different argument...like the fact that Dicks Boys overcharged the Military by something like $65-$130 MILLION Bucks. Then again, thats less than 1 bomber, so who's counting?

 

[Makalakumu]

Hey Bob

I must say that your reasoning and support is good. You used some good sources with some good information, but you declined to look into the money trail and that is where your argument fails.

Simply looking at where the US gets the majority of its oil is not going to explain why we are in Iraq at this moment. A better peice of information is the fact that Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world (the 1st being Russia - but we'll get to that later)

Think about this Bob. Just how much oil does Iraq have? How much could they produce? If a company has rites (and the use of this word is deliberate) of sale for that oil and suddenly, that market "opens" up how much money would they make?

And here is the Russia connection. Ever wonder where the number 1 Oil Reserves are located? Kahzakstan. Where is the only way that oil can be shipped out? Iran. Are the Iranians particularly friendly to us? No. Where else could we ship oil out of? Pakistan. What area needs to be stabalized first? Afghanistan.

Bob, follow the money? Occidental Oil has contracts and rites of sale for all of these areas. Who owns or has a lot of stock in Occidental oil? Look at the people who constructed this plan. This IS the format for our current foriegn policy.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Is this a conspiracy? Yes, but its not secret. Its right out out in the open and no one cares. You say the war is not about oil, but if you look who is in the White House and who in the country has the power and who stands to make the most money off of this current policy, that opinion CANNOT stand.

upnorth

PS - My wife is watching Survivor right now, earlier they had Saddam's capture splayed across the news. Wonderful. We wave the flags and feel good about our country while our elected officials abuse thier positions and then we learn how to treat each other in this screwed up society.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Oil is a great thing.

The US and the UK and others went into the oil fields of the Mid East and built them up. Tehn teh counties nationalized the industry and the US Companies were kicked out.

I still say the reason we went in is because Cain hit Able

Jsut My Opinion

 

[heretic888]

Correlation is not causation, kiddies. So many people forget that.

Also, if the war was "just about oil", why is it that one of its largest proponents, Great Britain, is one of the leading exporters of oil in the world??

Hrmmmmm.....

*shrugs* But what do I care?? I'm certainly no fan of Bush, although I have a great respect for the abilities of Tony Blaire as a world leader (he is someone I think both Bush and the other Western leaders could learn a thing or two from).

Oh well, maybe Howard Dean will get elected. Stranger things have happened.

 

[MountainSage]

Upnorth,
Check your fact. The larget stock holder in Occidental Oil is the Johnson family. You might remember them L.B.Ladybird.

 

[Makalakumu]

Originally posted by heretic888
Correlation is not causation, kiddies. So many people forget that.

You cannot determine causation without looking at correlation. Please take a philosophy class. I'm kidding about that part, but I do think you harbor a misconception regarding the above.

 

[Makalakumu]

Originally posted by MountainSage
Upnorth,
Check your fact. The larget stock holder in Occidental Oil is the Johnson family. You might remember them L.B.Ladybird.

Keep looking and look at the other players as well. Where did you find that bit of info?

 

[Makalakumu]

My uncle is the VP of a major medical equipment firm. They have a branch in Moscow and work directly with Occidental. Plastics, you know, they need oil too. Guess, who he has met and guess who he makes deals with?