bassplayer said:
I think that's a matter of opinion. I saw no indications that the UN's inspection process was 'working' and saw continual runarounds.
Then you weren't paying attention. The inspectors themselves have said that there was no justification for invasion.
bassplayer said:
(Now something similar is happening in Iran and hell, north korea too - they are thumbing their noses at inspectors, and I honestly dont think the UN will stand on its wobbly legs and do something about it. Proliferation is a serious issue and it doesnt seem like they are treating it as such!)
Neither North Korea nor Iran are nations that are subject to United Nations weapons inspection under Security Council mandate. The IAEA process is entirely separate from the one Iraq found itself under, and as such, is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
bassplayer said:
Also, noone had anything to say about the kids...I think its fairly certain that if Iraq was in their hands then things would have gotten more problematic (not that everything's problem-free now,) because those two were obviously not as smart or subtle as Saddam.
So is it then acceptable and desirable to conquer a sovereign nation because the children of its dictator are unstable?
bassplayer[To reply to peachmonkey's comment about saddam not dirtying his hands with al quaeda connections...I was saying that from a context of he was cognizant enough [i said:
not[/i] to have ties at a significant enough level that actions al quaeda took could be verifyably traced back to him.
This is speculation, and also happens to be irrelevant. Whether Saddam chose not to form deep ties with Al-Qaeda due to political or religious beliefs, or simply because he was afraid the US would kick his ***, the fact remains that NO DEEP TIES EXISTED.
If simply communicating with Al-Qaeda is sufficient reason to be conquered, why don't we go into Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Palestine, and Chechnya?
bassplayer said:
My point is, the stakes were/are too high here not to have a plan of action.
The United Nations had a plan of action, which was being undertaken. Your description of UN inspectors wandering around aimlessly and allowing themselves to be pushed around is not accurate about either the original inspections regime or the renewed one under Hans Blix.
The US pre-empted this plan in violation of international law and conquered a sovereign nation on pretexts that have been shown to be false.
If Iraq's WMDs were so dangerous, why were Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell, and Dick Cheney all quoted as saying that Iraq was contained and not a threat to its neighbors before the rise of the neoconservative powers in the Bush Administration?
If Iraq's possession of WMDs was so dangerous, why did we provide Iraq with the ability to build these weapons?
The invasion of Iraq was not based on any humanitarian reasons. Plans for the invasion of Iraq date back to at least the beginning of the Bush Administration, with some (who are now Bush Administration officials) demanding an invasion several years before that.
These are facts that you still have not addressed.
Moreover, your assertion that we're "turning the country around" is blatantly false. Water quality and electric power are worse than before the invasion; the insurgency continues to grow in strength; US intelligence experts are beginning to conclude that the battle is unwinnable; we're having to divert funds from civilian reconstruction to security.