Run away from no-mask people

[Deleted member 39746]

Remember, when you "flatten the curve," the area under the curve is still the same.

I mean its not my job to enforce laws to begin with and i have no authorty to enforce them, its down to the police. And police assets should have been considered before making any laws. Its also down to the buinsseses to regulate it.

Actually, given how the medical sector is kind of busy, you probably couldnt get a print of of your medical record to properly dispute in court if you had exemption. So best hope you didnt loose it or decide that you could just get another copy.

 

[Graywalker]

The real question at hand is how much does not wearing a mask endanger some one else' life? Those who are opposed generally believe that not wearing a mask does no more to endanger someone else's life than before COVID19.

That's what many in this thread are missing. For some reason, many seem to believe that "no maskers," "bare-faces," or whatever, are just being selfish, immoral, and evil. At best, many seem to believe that they are vastly smarter than the "bare-faces" because they're listening to the "right" experts. Guess what? They think the same thing.

This whole thread is stupid.

It's a bunch of people, on both sides, who are apparently convinced that the other side is either stupid or evil (or both).

You've all segmented into your own private little enclaves, all tribal and everything, and have both started assigning beliefs to "the other side" without ever actually, truly and honestly, looking at what the other side really believes and thinks. This looks very much like the lead up to actual wars between nations where each nation begins assigning evil motives and thoughts to the other. No one cares if what they're hearing about the other side is true or not. They're the "others" and are therefore automatically evil and wrong.

Egads, I hate humans sometimes. Feh!

You guys have fun with your thread here where each side mentally dehumanizes the other. I'm going to go to the corner and pray for a giant asteroid. Maybe the next species God puts here won't be such giant dumazzes.

I don't believe anyone is evil, but I do know, that wearing mask does protect from infections.

Doctors operating on patients in hospital is pretty much a dead give away.

 

[lklawson]

I don't believe anyone is evil,

That's good to hear but you should know there are plenty who apparently do.

Example:
Run away from no-mask people

I've seen this exact sentiment expressed a lot.

but I do know, that wearing mask does protect from infections.

Doctors operating on patients in hospital is pretty much a dead give away.

That's been questioned recently too. With some actual data to back it up. It seems the best way to protect has little to do with a mask and much more to do with making sure that "Doctors operating on patients" aren't sick when they do so. No, I don't care to argue it. You can find it easily enough on duck-duck-go I suspect. It's been referenced a thousand times. But I've also found that people who are advocates for masks have reasons to put less trust in those reports, just the same way that those who are advocates for no masks have reasons to put less trust in the reports advocating for masks.

I guess what I'm saying is that there has been some information recently that OR masks have less to do with preventing transmission of disease than does the care-provider making sure to not operate if they known they're sick but that I don't expect it to make anyone change take a second look at their current position.

In fact, now that I <ahem> "say it out loud" I don't know why I'm writing it. So I'll stop.

 

[Saheim]

Well I am distrustful of these experts given how many were bribed to class deaths as COVID deaths, the situations under which deaths are labelled COVID deaths, and also just the fact that they seem to think 6 people mixing is safe, but as soon as it becomes 7, I get fined.

Funny you mention the numbers. A friend of mine was quarantined, until both of his children could be tested. The first child came back negative. The test on the second child wasn't coming back as fast. He got into a huge argument with the hospital because they told him that they were just going to consider that a positive. He was adamant that they would NOT list his child as having a virus unless they could detect it, that they could either take another test OR wait for the original test to come back. They waited, the original test came back negative. During the wait, the hospital did their best to convince him to just allow them to say his child had it. More covid means more money, folks. This ain't that complex.

As for the arguing just for the sake of arguing (that wasn't you) - I am not arguing, at all. I am saying I will wear or not wear what I want. I do not care who wears a mask, good for them. I am not going to be forced to do (or refrain from doing) what i feel i shouldn't (or should) do.

 

[Graywalker]

That's been questioned recently too. With some actual data to back it up. No, I don't care to argue it.

Yeah I have seen, the haphazard data. But I agree, everyone has a right to question whatever they want.

And I don't care to argue about it myself. I simply step away from those who choose not to wear one.

 

[Steve]

freedom is the ability to make choices, the state restricts some choices, like murder or put caveats on them, like a driving licence

but the point im dealing with is the state does not restrict all choices that increase the risk to others,
i spent a big chunk of my life doing risk assessment that could seriously impact the well being of others. the government required it, they didn't expect more of us than to reduce the risk to an ''acceptable'' amount, that was and still is a value judgement of cost against consequence

we were still putting people at risk

if you accept that, then we can avoid a circular argument

I disagree. Freedom isn't the ability to make a choice. Consider slavery. If we use your definition of the term, then slaves were free, because they could choose to flee at any time. This is, of course, ridiculous.

We can all make any choice we want, but freedom is the ability to do so without fear of repercussion. And just to be clear, freedom is often contextual. In America, we enjoy freedom of speech which doesn't mean we can say anything we want, whenever we want, without fear of repercussion. It is a contextual liberty. Same with the 2nd amendment.

Your argument is circular. On that we can agree.

 

[Steve]

They want to think of themselves as strong, independent people, partly because of their national culture.
But they also want to think of themselves as good, caring people (not evil).

Completely agree with your entire post. In particular, the sort of cognitive dissonance you mention above is apparent in some members of this forum. They don't wear masks for whatever reason. They behave in a way that is selfish and can be very cruel (because 2% of people who get this disease die from it), but are willing to accept outrageous claims from sketchy sources that are demonstrably untrue in order to reconcile the conflict between their actions and their self image.

 

[jobo]

I disagree. Freedom isn't the ability to make a choice. Consider slavery. If we use your definition of the term, then slaves were free, because they could choose to flee at any time. This is, of course, ridiculous.

We can all make any choice we want, but freedom is the ability to do so without fear of repercussion. And just to be clear, freedom is often contextual. In America, we enjoy freedom of speech which doesn't mean we can say anything we want, whenever we want, without fear of repercussion. It is a contextual liberty. Same with the 2nd amendment.

Your argument is circular. On that we can agree.

i dont think we should stray in to slavery as a comparison. it get very emotive and reasoned argument goes out of the window

but yes at first glance a slave who chose to flee was free at least for a while or longer if they made to the underground railway

but the point of freedoms is you dont have to run to be able to choose, you can choose to stay and still be free, so no not the best point for your argument

i agree with your second point, but freedom from the state is to be free reprocusion by the state,

life generally has repercussion, my freedom to walk has worn out my shoes, thats a repercussion of freedom

 

[Steve]

Run away from no-mask people

Feel better?

 

[Steve]

Remember, when you "flatten the curve," the area under the curve is still the same.

Right, but flattening the curve isn't about stopping people from getting it. It's about helping to ensure that if you need a bed in an ICU, there is room available for you when you get there.

 

[Steve]

i dont think we should stray in to slavery as a comparison. it get very emotive and reasoned argument goes out of the window

but yes at first glance a slave who chose to flee was free at least for a while or longer if they made to the underground railway

but the point of freedoms is you dont have to run to be able to choose, you can choose to stay and still be free, so no not the best point for your argument

LOL. Slavery is simply the clearest example I could think of where people can make choices but we would (probably) agree are not enjoying any freedom or personal liberty. And, while I'm not entirely surprised, I'm still disappointed that even in this example we cannot agree that slaves were not free. That's sad and also darkly humorous.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

but it just your circular argument, show that the numbers they have come up are more effective than double the amount or less effective than half the amount

What's the circle? I think you're combining several people's responses and responding as if we were a single person.

 

[Steve]

its very much the minority that wear them outside, and when they dont have to. Its not the law to wear them outside here so the police cant do anything, and thats also why there is a space reccomendation and a group size limit.

I dont overly care anymore, i am probbly going to get what ever if i get what ever.

To be clear, I wear them outside only when I'm around people. My wife and I don't routinely wear them when we walk the dogs, and if we run into other people, we just cross the street. I wear them inside all the time when I'm out among the English (aka, at the store, etc).

 

[Steve]

Hey, can anyone share some actual data from experts that suggest we shouldn't wear masks, or that masks don't do anything, or that masks are a bad idea? Kirk makes a good point. Those of us who listen to experts might just be listening to the wrong experts. @lklawson , some links would be helpful.

 

[jobo]

What's the circle? I think you're combining several people's responses and responding as if we were a single person.

ive been subjected to your circular argument for several months now, this is just the latest instalment, so nnnnnnnno, its just you im talking to

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Funny you mention the numbers. A friend of mine was quarantined, until both of his children could be tested. The first child came back negative. The test on the second child wasn't coming back as fast. He got into a huge argument with the hospital because they told him that they were just going to consider that a positive. He was adamant that they would NOT list his child as having a virus unless they could detect it, that they could either take another test OR wait for the original test to come back. They waited, the original test came back negative. During the wait, the hospital did their best to convince him to just allow them to say his child had it. More covid means more money, folks. This ain't that complex.

As for the arguing just for the sake of arguing (that wasn't you) - I am not arguing, at all. I am saying I will wear or not wear what I want. I do not care who wears a mask, good for them. I am not going to be forced to do (or refrain from doing) what i feel i shouldn't (or should) do.

Additional money for COVID treatments, so far as I could find, is restricted to Medicare or Medicaid (I've forgotten which - might be both). Insurance companies (who pay the majority of those bills in the US) don't seem to have a different rate. They pay for the treatment, not the cause. Per billing folks, they don't even have a way to code it for the insurance company to know it is COVID.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I wear them inside all the time when I'm outside the house.

Will you let someone coming through your front door and inside your house without mask on?

I decide to hang a sign on my front door.

 

[Steve]

ive been subjected to your circular argument for several months now, this is just the latest instalment, so nnnnnnnno, its just you im talking to

The old "I know you are but what am I" gambit. Haven't seen that one in a while.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

ive been subjected to your circular argument for several months now, this is just the latest instalment, so nnnnnnnno, its just you im talking to

So, that's "I'm just gonna call it circular, because I'm not paying attention to it and don't have any real point."

Gotcha.

 

[Steve]

Will you let someone coming through your front door and inside your house without mask on?

I decide to hang a sign on my front door.

No way. We've had several contractors and folks come into the house. They wear a mask, we stay at least 6 feet away from them at all times, and we limit where they go. We pay attention to what they touch so that we can wipe that stuff down after they leave. We aren't over-zealous about it, and don't act crazy. But we are careful.