evenflow1121
2nd Black Belt
Ceicei said:
The fight is in May at the UFC I believe.
Royce Gracie vs. Matt Hughes - who will win?
- Thread starter Dragon Fist
- Start date
The fight is in May at the UFC I believe.
green meanie
Master Black Belt
I'm going with Matt Hughes but I think in the end the winner will be decided by the judges. Gracie's a tough guy but he's gonna have his hands full trying to keep Hughes under control with no gi to hang on to. Hughes will get points for slamming the hell out of him with his takedowns but will have a hard time trying to get anywhere near his back to slap on the rear naked chokes he seems to favor using.
OP
OP
Dragon Fist
Blue Belt
Seems that hardly anyone (besides a few) gives Royce Gracie much of chance against Hughes.
I will find it interesting if the fight hits the floor.
(if Hughes doesn't knock him out)
BJ Penn was a good BJJ guy and was able to sub Matt.
I'm sure that Hughes has worked on his submission defense since then. Still, this fight with Royce isn't going to be some cake walk for Matt.
I will find it interesting if the fight hits the floor.
(if Hughes doesn't knock him out)
BJ Penn was a good BJJ guy and was able to sub Matt.
I'm sure that Hughes has worked on his submission defense since then. Still, this fight with Royce isn't going to be some cake walk for Matt.
Marginal
Senior Master
One other thing, the Gracies typically demand a special ruleset that favors their style when they agree to matches. Without that luxury, Royce has to fight in a setting he's not used to. (No unlimited time, greater potential for being stood back up etc.)
Hopefully Royce is staying hydrated etc too. Don't want a repeat of that post Kimo fainting spell.
Hopefully Royce is staying hydrated etc too. Don't want a repeat of that post Kimo fainting spell.
Jagermeister
Blue Belt
What kind of special rules do they allegedly demand?
I am leaning towards Gracie. He wouldn't fight if he didn't think he could win. I just hope they give each other a run for their money and surprise each other with what they have learned in preparation for this fight. I will be very disappointed if it is quick and over with in the first few minutes. Those are always such a let down for me after all this hype. 
Marginal said:
Thats correct. I remember special rules being applied for him. His art does not work as good when there is a time limit involved. Looking back at his past fights, that has always been his game plan...clinch, take down, get the guy tired, and submit. Kinda hard to do that when the match is broken down into 5min matches.
Mike
Jagermeister
Blue Belt
So is that it - that sometimes they got an exception to the normal time rules? I'm just curious what the specific rule changes have been in the past. Can you enlighten me? "Blah blah blah" just isn't specific enough for me. By the way, do you guys remember how boring the first rematch between shamrock and royce was? It was like half an hour, basically spent the whole time in the guard, and ended in a draw. Pretty boring, if I remember correctly. Man, that was a long time ago.
By the way, do you guys remember how boring the first rematch between shamrock and royce was? It was like half an hour, basically spent the whole time in the guard, and ended in a draw. Pretty boring, if I remember correctly. Man, that was a long time ago.FearlessFreep
Senior Master
Maybe hoping to stir up some controversy but I read on a different board awhile back that had the conspiracy theory that one of the reasons for starting UFC was to be a showcase/advertisement for the Gracie's BJJ system, so the rules favored their style of fighting.
Unfortunately, I won't have a chance to see him next weekend (no funds), but he's putting on a gi,no-gi, children, and self-defense set of classes here next weekend.
but I read on a different board awhile back that had the conspiracy theory that one of the reasons for starting UFC was to be a showcase/advertisement for the Gracie's BJJ system, so the rules favored their style of fighting.Unfortunately, I won't have a chance to see him next weekend (no funds), but he's putting on a gi,no-gi, children, and self-defense set of classes here next weekend.
Jagermeister said:So is that it - that sometimes they got an exception to the normal time rules? I'm just curious what the specific rule changes have been in the past. Can you enlighten me? "Blah blah blah" just isn't specific enough for me.
I know you're addressing Marginals post here, but I'll throw in my .02.
Once Royce left the UFC, I really didn't follow him all that much. I do recall hearing something about a fight he had though, in which special rules were applied. I can't recall what fight, what event, location, etc. Also, keep in mind that the UFC is the brainchild of Rorion. This was his event to showcase to the world, his families art. That being said, I'm sure the rules were established to meet the way that Royce fights. Look at the early fights. We saw Royce clinch, takedown, and basically 'play' with his opponent until they tired out and then he moved in for the finish. Having 3, 5 min rounds, is not going to play in their favor.This is certainly not a slam on Royce. He is a great fighter, but when comparing his opponents from early fights, to todays fighters...well, there is a very obvious difference.
Yes, I recall that, and I too was falling asleep. I believe that was the UFC 5 Superfight. Personally, I'd rather have seen Shamrock doing more standup.
Mike
Muay Thai Knee
Yellow Belt
This sounds like a must see.
Doe anyone know when this is on?
I'd like Gracie to win, as he is one of the reasons I do this martial arts stuff. However, the realist in me is backing Hughes. His record is nothing short of amazing
Doe anyone know when this is on?
I'd like Gracie to win, as he is one of the reasons I do this martial arts stuff. However, the realist in me is backing Hughes. His record is nothing short of amazing
Jagermeister
Blue Belt
If UFC was a Gracie invention, you can't really call BS on them for the choice of rules in the early stages. Back then it was pretty much anything goes. Now the rules are much more favorable for grapplers, e.g. the limitations on kicks, knees, blows to the back of head and neck, particularly on down opponents. So if there is commotion now over specific rules for Gracies, that might warrant the BS charge, but I don't think anyone can honestly say the choice of rules in the early stages of UFC was shifted in the favor of BJJ guys. By the way, the only specific rules that I've seen posted so far are time-related rules. I think it's unfair to flame them so hard if this is the only rule change that they lobby for.
I think that these early UFC contests showed that in a pure discipline vs. pure discipline environment, BJJ was dominant, but immediately after these first few events, it was obvious that cross-training was necessary, and MMA was born. Now it's a whole different ball game.
I'm amazed that so many people have so little faith in the Gracies these days. Is this a backlash to the popular 90's idea that to be a Gracie is to be unbeatable? And for the record, I still believe that Hughes will win by decision, or we'll have a draw.
I think that these early UFC contests showed that in a pure discipline vs. pure discipline environment, BJJ was dominant, but immediately after these first few events, it was obvious that cross-training was necessary, and MMA was born. Now it's a whole different ball game.
I'm amazed that so many people have so little faith in the Gracies these days. Is this a backlash to the popular 90's idea that to be a Gracie is to be unbeatable? And for the record, I still believe that Hughes will win by decision, or we'll have a draw.
T
Twingoats
Guest
I havnt seen Royce fight in a long time, or any gracies for that matter. He was my favorite fighter in te UFC and i ahve confidence that he will still kick much buttoxial region
Marginal
Senior Master
Jagermeister said:
In the early UFC's it wasn't the rules, it was the tournament seeding and opponent selection that was tweaked for the Gracies.
It wasn't a flame. It's an observation. Though it does beg the question, if they're so great, why do they need custom rules at all?
Not so much that as it is that BJJ's dominance has waned in favor of truly mixed styles.
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
Matt will kick his butt.
Marginal pretty much summed it up, but again, I'll toss in my .02.
1) Actually, yes you can. The rules as well as the fights were set up to give Royce the best possibilities of winning.
2) The commotion now is due to the fact that he will only fight if rules that HE agrees to are in effect. I may be wrong, but I'd highly doubt that he'd agree to a fight with time limits.
Its not a flame, though it may seem that way. I have nothing against Royce, but once special changes have to be made, well, to me it seems a bit unfair.
Mike
Jagermeister said:
1) Actually, yes you can. The rules as well as the fights were set up to give Royce the best possibilities of winning.
2) The commotion now is due to the fact that he will only fight if rules that HE agrees to are in effect. I may be wrong, but I'd highly doubt that he'd agree to a fight with time limits.
Its not a flame, though it may seem that way. I have nothing against Royce, but once special changes have to be made, well, to me it seems a bit unfair.
Mike
Jagermeister
Blue Belt
MJS - the rules, as I said before, in the first few UFC's were anything goes. And it's been a long time since Royce fought with no time limits. That kind of thing doesn't even really exist anymore, not for the big fights anyway. It's no good for TV. I see your other points, though.
Marginal - it sounds like you know quite a bit about this, and honestly this is the first I've really heard much of it. Can you tell me more about the seeding thing you described previously? Is this confirmed that there was a "fix" in that respect?
I see your other points, though.Marginal - it sounds like you know quite a bit about this, and honestly this is the first I've really heard much of it. Can you tell me more about the seeding thing you described previously? Is this confirmed that there was a "fix" in that respect?
Marginal
Senior Master
Jagermeister said:
Honestly, it somewhat depends on who you ask. The book Brawl spells it out fairly objectively. No Holds Barred (the book, not the movie) comes out extremely pro Gracie, but even there it still peeks through. "Yeah Royce knew that Gerard had a broken hand, and teeth stuck in his instep, and purposely avoided his good side, but...."
