Respectfuly declining a rank advancement?

[faerie2]

I'm currently a purple belt and have been only for a short time.

There was a belt test last night and I went so I could get out of the house, and because it's always fun to watch. I declined to test - I didn't return my test request sheet, didn't pay for a test, told the instructors I wasn't ready yet and wanted to wait until I was good enough and had more sparring experience, etc. I think they tested me anyhow :/ They called on me to do my poomsae 4 and 5 (not as well as I would have liked), strength and flexibility demonstrations, some kick combinations (again, not as good as I would have liked) and they even paired me with a black belt for sparring. I sucked, but it was still fun. They generally run tests every 6 weeks to accommodate people who have to be away, so they don't have to wait another few months (there are lots of kids at my dojang). For some reason, I keep getting tested far too frequently :/ I do go to class 6 days/week, but still the experience and muscle memory isn't there.

I'm pretty sure that they don't call on non-testing students to run through the test and I'm worried that my rank may advance again - WAY sooner than it should. I feel like I am light years away from deserving a blue belt. It seems that Grandmaster's strategy with me - and no one else that I can see - is to advance my rank before I have fully earned it, so I can work my tail off to demonstrate that I deserve it - and I do, but I feel like the rank should come after demonstrating that it has been earned through hard work and experience, right? He has even double promoted me before.

I am hoping that it was just an exercise, or a test to test later, but in case it wasn't, how can I respectfully decline a rank advancement if I feel like I really don't deserve it?

 

[JWLuiza]

You can't respectfully decline it. You don't have the perspective to determine if you really do or do not deserve the rank. Declining the rank implies you know more about your advancement in the art (of which your instructor is a master) than he does.

 

[faerie2]

That's a very good point. While I would love to have a blue belt, I think I would feel pretty lame wearing one after having just been double promoted from orange not too long ago - with very little sparring experience.

I am completely obsessed with my training, and I am in a mostly black stripe/black belt class.

Grandmaster is 8th dan Kukkiwon and very traditional, I know it's not just a black belt factory - but my friends (who admittedly know squat about Taekwondo) are starting to raise their eyebrows at how fast I'm advancing - thus bursting my bubble a little. I guess I still don't feel entirely comfortable with my purple belt ranking, let alone a potential blue belt.

Meh, I think I'm just festering a little because the dojang is closed for hollidays for a week, so I can't just focus on my training instead of the rank/test situation

 

[Windsinger]

Keeping in mind that this is coming from a lowly little yellow stripe :

I think I agree with JWLuiza that, from an ettiquette point of view, it would be difficult to decline. Your instructors probably see something that you don't, and (as JWLuiza said) declining it may be viewed as "I know more than the instructors", even though I'm sure that's not the case. If they do advance you, I would take it as a compliment.

 

[jarrod]

did you tell your grade school that you weren't ready for the 4th grade?

it's not up to you when you get promoted.

 

[Kacey]

did you tell your grade school that you weren't ready for the 4th grade?

it's not up to you when you get promoted.

Speaking as both a student and an instructor - you test when your instructor thinks you are ready, whether you think you are or not. No one is ever as good as they think they should be - especially those who are truly committed to their art, as it sounds like you are. If your Grandmaster is anywhere near as traditional as you say he is, you would not be promoted unless you were ready.

Something else to consider: readiness for promotion varies from person to person. If you are training 6 days a week, and comparing yourself to students who train twice a week, I would expect that you could be ready sooner. If you want to test less often - show up less often (although it sounds like that's not likely ).

If you are truly concerned - talk to your instructor about your concerns. No one on MT can really answer whether or not you're ready, as we haven't seen you perform. Only your instructor can tell you if you're being fast-tracked, and if so, why. In the meantime, enjoy the journey!

 

[faerie2]

Thanks so much for all of your replies, it's really good to hear from others who have training experience. A 'friend' has even insinuated that they are doing it to somehow gain more money from me, which is quite contrary to the situation, because I didn't pay for this belt test, or the skipped green belt rank. I guess I'm just feeling cautious because of some sour grapes from others who have never seen me - or anyone else for that matter practice.

 

[JWLuiza]

Just a quick note: It's good that you don't want to advance too fast. Sorry if my post came off harsh....

If you are training 6 x week, and are young and athletic, you may very well skyrocket to black belt. That's ok. Let the 8th dan figure out where that plateau should be. If I were your instructor I'd want to balance time to season you as a martial artists while also providing you with the best challenge for your ability.

 

[Laurentkd]

I'm currently a purple belt and have been only for a short time.

There was a belt test last night and I went so I could get out of the house, and because it's always fun to watch. I declined to test - I didn't return my test request sheet, didn't pay for a test, told the instructors I wasn't ready yet and wanted to wait until I was good enough and had more sparring experience, etc. I think they tested me anyhow :/ They called on me to do my poomsae 4 and 5 (not as well as I would have liked), strength and flexibility demonstrations, some kick combinations (again, not as good as I would have liked) and they even paired me with a black belt for sparring. I sucked, but it was still fun. They generally run tests every 6 weeks to accommodate people who have to be away, so they don't have to wait another few months (there are lots of kids at my dojang). For some reason, I keep getting tested far too frequently :/ I do go to class 6 days/week, but still the experience and muscle memory isn't there.

I'm pretty sure that they don't call on non-testing students to run through the test and I'm worried that my rank may advance again - WAY sooner than it should. I feel like I am light years away from deserving a blue belt. It seems that Grandmaster's strategy with me - and no one else that I can see - is to advance my rank before I have fully earned it, so I can work my tail off to demonstrate that I deserve it - and I do, but I feel like the rank should come after demonstrating that it has been earned through hard work and experience, right? He has even double promoted me before.

I am hoping that it was just an exercise, or a test to test later, but in case it wasn't, how can I respectfully decline a rank advancement if I feel like I really don't deserve it?

You can't respectfully decline it. You don't have the perspective to determine if you really do or do not deserve the rank. Declining the rank implies you know more about your advancement in the art (of which your instructor is a master) than he does.

I think JW has it right on. Another thing to think about... it is my understanding that traditionally Japanese ranks were given just as you suggested. You were given a rank and then expected to work up to that new level. It is not that you were good enough to deserve to be a "x" belt, but rather now you are wearing "x" belt, you BETTER step up and work hard to deserve it. Maybe that is exactly what your older (I assume as he is an 8th Dan) Korean master (who was probably trained by Japanese, or trained by those who were) is trying to do.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Wait wait wait!

Why do people train at a dojo? Is belt rank the full reason? The only reason? Does it even have to be one of the reasons? Is gaining rank the be-all-end-all for being in a dojo?

faerie2 want's to take it slow. I'm not sure, but I presume he enjoys the class and likes being there. But to force him to have a test for the next rank when he does not feel he is ready, well that's stupid. This is not the army where it the policy is 'Up or Out'. In fact rank in dojo is not a huge indicator of how you have asorbed such things as respect, spirit, humility, perseverance, honor, and a whole host of tenants!

Maybe those who run dojos think everyone is dieing for the next belt. That the next belt must be achieved in the shortest time period possible. Heck, I started working out again about 4 years ago simply to get my skills back and drop some weight. I got dragged back into getting my 5th (yes there was some ego there, but I did not go back to get it.)

I think faerie2 should advance at his own pace, as long as it's slower than the GM's.

Deaf

 

[faerie2]

Just a quick note: It's good that you don't want to advance too fast. Sorry if my post came off harsh....

If you are training 6 x week, and are young and athletic, you may very well skyrocket to black belt. That's ok. Let the 8th dan figure out where that plateau should be. If I were your instructor I'd want to balance time to season you as a martial artists while also providing you with the best challenge for your ability.

LOL! Athletic, maybe. Young... not so much. I'm 33 and started 8 weeks after having my second baby. Granted, I'm the sort of person who walks/runs 10km every day rain, shine, snow, etc - pregnant or not - I even did 10km walks the day before giving birth both times. I weight train and have spent years doing nonsense like TaeBo (phear my mad Billy Blanks skillz :ultracool) so yeah, athletic, I suppose. I guess I loose sight of my conditioning because I feel like I have started Taekwondo so ... late.


You didn't come across as harsh at all

 

[faerie2]

I think JW has it right on. Another thing to think about... it is my understanding that traditionally Japanese ranks were given just as you suggested. You were given a rank and then expected to work up to that new level. It is not that you were good enough to deserve to be a "x" belt, but rather now you are wearing "x" belt, you BETTER step up and work hard to deserve it. Maybe that is exactly what your older (I assume as he is an 8th Dan) Korean master (who was probably trained by Japanese, or trained by those who were) is trying to do.

That's really cool, I didn't know that! Grandmaster is 8th dan Kukkiwon - I believe they moved to Canada in the mid 80's from Korea.

 

[faerie2]

Wait wait wait!

Why do people train at a dojo? Is belt rank the full reason? The only reason? Does it even have to be one of the reasons? Is gaining rank the be-all-end-all for being in a dojo?

faerie2 want's to take it slow. I'm not sure, but I presume he enjoys the class and likes being there. But to force him to have a test for the next rank when he does not feel he is ready, well that's stupid. This is not the army where it the policy is 'Up or Out'. In fact rank in dojo is not a huge indicator of how you have asorbed such things as respect, spirit, humility, perseverance, honor, and a whole host of tenants!

Maybe those who run dojos think everyone is dieing for the next belt. That the next belt must be achieved in the shortest time period possible. Heck, I started working out again about 4 years ago simply to get my skills back and drop some weight. I got dragged back into getting my 5th (yes there was some ego there, but I did not go back to get it.)

I think faerie2 should advance at his own pace, as long as it's slower than the GM's.

Deaf

(psst, I'm a chick )
YES! I think that's part of the reason I'm a bit upset. There are a lot of kids there and they are motivated by rank rather than training. I don't want to be perceived that way, but it seems that I'm moving up in rank twice as fast as anyone else in the whole school. Training is my goal, not colour of belt - although rank advancement is compelling - it's certainly not what I'm in it for.

 

[Mimir]

I guess I loose sight of my conditioning because I feel like I have started Taekwondo so ... late.

Hey you didn't start late to my perspective. I started 1 month before turning 38.

As far as your rank advancement - Trust your instructors. They know what you are capable of doing and not doing.

 

[faerie2]

Hey you didn't start late to my perspective. I started 1 month before turning 38.

As far as your rank advancement - Trust your instructors. They know what you are capable of doing and not doing.

It's good to hear from someone who has also started later. I had always felt like I missed the Martial Arts boat because I didn't get into it as a kid. After two kids and still longing to get into it (and an awesome dojang 5 minutes from my house) I figured that I wasn't getting any younger and I may as well give it a go - and I'm obsessed!

...much to my husbands dismay :/

Actually, he's incredibly supportive, I'm just always yabbering on about tkd class

 

[IcemanSK]

I'll add to the chorus of "test at your instructor's pace" here. If he didn't charge you for it, he's not after money from you (it appears). I did notice a question in your post as to whether or not you were sure you were actually being tested, or just going through the test. Ya might wanna find out for sure on this one. I'm not sure why he would have you test & not have you pay for it. But unless he expressly said, "you're testing today," you can't be sure it actually was a test for rank. I don't mean to put a damper on your day, but ya wanna make sure.

You said you were a purple belt: what gup rank (what's the belt order)is that in your school? I'm curious as to what you mean by fast advancement.

There are a lot of folks on the Taekwondo board who have a lot of experience. In JW, Kacey & Lauren there is well over 40 years experience alone. This is a good place to ask questions that you may not be comfortable or sure how to put with your instructor.

 

[Mimir]

Is there any interest from your kids to start class with you? My wife and one of our daughters go.

 

[Steve]

I am hoping that it was just an exercise, or a test to test later, but in case it wasn't, how can I respectfully decline a rank advancement if I feel like I really don't deserve it?

Personally, and this is just my opinion, I believe you should trust your instincts. This is particularly true if there is a testing fee involved, or if you are expected to perform an increasing amount of gratis work around the school, such as teaching classes for free at a certain rank. If pretty much every student tests on a regular schedule, like every quarter (suspiciously around the time that the school's taxes are due, for example), and practically (or literally) everyone who tests is promoted, I think you have a point.

Regardless of what kind of reasons you're given, if you're doing something that you feel strongly is wrong, you should be firm. If you're being compelled against your better judgement to do something you aren't comfortable with, you should do what you think is right. Any activity for which you are paying should not make you feel uneasy. That's the very definition of dysfunction.

Personally, I would (and have) left a school for reasons like this. While some will tell you it's a lack of respect for your instructor, I believe that it's quite the reverse, a lack of respect for YOU. I want to be clear that I'm not suggesting that this is universal. I'm speaking largely based upon my own personal experience. This sort of situation is one of several reasons that ultimately led to my leaving my old school and looking for a system that I believe has more integrity.

 

[terryl965]

It is your job as a student to accept your instructor knowledge that they actually know what they are doing. Then you accept the tesy and go on with your training. Now if you do not believe your instructor is good enough to judge who should test find someone else. Have a wonderful day.

 

[faerie2]

... But unless he expressly said, "you're testing today," you can't be sure it actually was a test for rank. I don't mean to put a damper on your day, but ya wanna make sure.

I'm not sure if it was a test or just having me run through a test (and not actually testing me). That's why I posted here because I wanted to know (initially) how to respectfully decline it if he came after me with a blue belt in September. My dojang is closed for holidays for a week, so I won't get the chance to ask until September.

You said you were a purple belt: what gup rank (what's the belt order)is that in your school? I'm curious as to what you mean by fast advancement.

At our school, purple belt would be 5th gup.