Requiring Patience For The Black Belt And For Rank Advancement In General

[PhotonGuy]

I’ve discussed this before about somebody who posted on a martial arts Internet forum, not this one, who said his instructor required patience to get a black belt and for rank advancement in general. He didn’t really get into detail about the system that his instructor used for rank advancement except to say that the instructor tells the student when they will test because patience was a requirement. So for instance lets say there’s a brown belt student at his dojo and the next time the student gets promoted it will be to that of first degree black belt. Even if the student is skilled enough to pass the test the instructor might not tell the student they can test because he wants the student to be patient. So when I posted about this before some people said that this was a good idea but I don’t entirely agree, I think if somebody is skilled enough they should be allowed to promote because, number one, time is precious, and number two, if a student has skill that means they’ve got patience simply because it takes patience to develop skill, that’s just my position on it.

 

[drop bear]

It is the difference between competition rank and school rank.

Both are important.

But because they are different it allows different ways to achieve recognition in martial arts.

 

[isshinryuronin]

the instructor might not tell the student they can test because he wants the student to be patient. So when I posted about this before some people said that this was a good idea but I don’t entirely agree, I think if somebody is skilled enough they should be allowed to promote because, number one, time is precious, and number two, if a student has skill that means they’ve got patience simply because it takes patience to develop skill

I think it's OK to delay a test. It helps keep the student from being too belt conscious. Of course, if taken too far it can be counterproductive to the average student's motivation.

The part I put in bold type is true, but one must realize that patience itself is a skill. Not only needed in developing a particular technical skill, but in the application of tactics and waiting for the right timing to attack. Patience in fighting takes mental discipline and a calm spirit which are also valuable skills.

In everyday life, impatience is a major cause of accidents - "Haste makes waste." There is more value in patience than you think. The fact you discuss this topic only in relation to belt color kind of reinforces my second sentence in this post.

Yes, "time is precious," but when looking at a journey of 8-40 years, a few months wait is not significant.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Even if the student is skilled enough to pass the test the instructor might not tell the student they can test because he wants the student to be patient.

That should already be a secondary, even if unintended, function of time in grade requirements.

Are you saying that this particular school doesn't have TIG requirements? That the instructor comes to you when he feels that you've suppressed your dopamine cravings long enough?

Yeah, that's a mind game that no self-respecting adult has time for.

 

[HighKick]

I’ve discussed this before about somebody who posted on a martial arts Internet forum, not this one, who said his instructor required patience to get a black belt and for rank advancement in general. He didn’t really get into detail about the system that his instructor used for rank advancement except to say that the instructor tells the student when they will test because patience was a requirement. So for instance lets say there’s a brown belt student at his dojo and the next time the student gets promoted it will be to that of first degree black belt. Even if the student is skilled enough to pass the test the instructor might not tell the student they can test because he wants the student to be patient. So when I posted about this before some people said that this was a good idea but I don’t entirely agree, I think if somebody is skilled enough they should be allowed to promote because, number one, time is precious, and number two, if a student has skill that means they’ve got patience simply because it takes patience to develop skill, that’s just my position on it.

I can't agree with this. God given ability and genetics will always play a Big role in any sport. But ability does prevent a person from being a d**k with their training, nor does it have much to do with people who are exceptionally gifted

 

[PhotonGuy]

That should already be a secondary, even if unintended, function of time in grade requirements.

Are you saying that this particular school doesn't have TIG requirements? That the instructor comes to you when he feels that you've suppressed your dopamine cravings long enough?

Yeah, that's a mind game that no self-respecting adult has time for.

By time in grade requirements I take it you mean a minimal amount of time a student has to hold their current rank before they're eligible for promotion. For instance, before you can be a black belt you have to be a brown belt for a certain x length of time and only after you've been a brown belt for that length of time are you eligible for the black belt no matter how skilled you might be, minimum time requirements aren't uncommon and those I can understand as long as the minimum time requirement is within reason but as to the student I was referring to in my original post, Im not quite sure that's how it was done at his dojo.

The impression I got was that at his dojo you had to wait indefinitely to promote because the sensei wanted you to be patient. For instance if you were a brown belt working on getting a black belt you would have to wait indefinitely before you could test for the black belt no matter how skilled you might be, all in the name of patience. I could be wrong with my impression but that was just the impression I got from the description he gave.

Anyway, that's what Im against, having to wait indefinitely just because your sensei wants you to be patient. If your sensei does have reasonable minimum time requirements then you should be able to test once you've met those requirements, so if you've been a brown belt for as long as you need to be in order to fulfill the minimum time requirement then you should be eligible to test for the black belt. It's having to wait indefinitely that Im against.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I think it's OK to delay a test. It helps keep the student from being too belt conscious. Of course, if taken too far it can be counterproductive to the average student's motivation.

The part I put in bold type is true, but one must realize that patience itself is a skill. Not only needed in developing a particular technical skill, but in the application of tactics and waiting for the right timing to attack. Patience in fighting takes mental discipline and a calm spirit which are also valuable skills.

In everyday life, impatience is a major cause of accidents - "Haste makes waste." There is more value in patience than you think. The fact you discuss this topic only in relation to belt color kind of reinforces my second sentence in this post.

Yes, "time is precious," but when looking at a journey of 8-40 years, a few months wait is not significant.

As I said in post #6 I can understand about having minimum time requirements but what Im against is having to wait indefinitely. I can see about having to wait a few months but it's when you have to wait unreasonably long, that's what Im against.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I can't agree with this. God given ability and genetics will always play a Big role in any sport. But ability does prevent a person from being a d**k with their training, nor does it have much to do with people who are exceptionally gifted

So what do you think should be required for promotion?