repeated devastation

[HKphooey]

Thanks Doc. Always enjoy your thoughts. Hope all is well.

 

[Doc]

Thanks Doc. Always enjoy your thoughts. Hope all is well.

Youdaman.

 

[Touch Of Death]

For training purposes I'd say yes. But that's a Ju Jitsu mentality where sometimes we'd train from the worse positions we could think of even if it was practically infeasible for us to end up there. A full Nelson ranks up there. I don't know about all of this impossible stuff. I've seen alot that is deemed impossible and the full nelson is something I've seen more than once in its completed stage...and not while someone was letting them do it. So where conventinal knowledge says no my experiences say yes and I can't pretend to have not seen the impossible.

Oh yeah.... And STOP trying to get me banned on KenpoTalk for screwing with you!

Um... I'm not trying to get you banned. Who would I screw with if you got banned? It would be a travesty if you got banned!
Sean

 

[kenpoworks]

I know right off the bat that the all y'all ain't gonna like my input.

In my grandiose know-it-allness, there are a few techs in kenpo that I have opted to delete. CATEGORY COMPLETION is not a good enough reason to me to pass on silliness to subsequent generations. This is one of those techs where I just say, "Drop it. Nothing lost. If they really want to know it for histories sake, look it up on a tape."

I've had some guys try to put Nelsons on me as I've been throwing their buddies out of bars in asundry holds and grabs. With my hands and feet occupied, my balance concentrating elsewhere (maintaining the extrication momentum), and my brain just not paying that much attention to their incidental attacks while choking out their buddies in running versions of Standing Sleepers, I have not yet had someone successfully place me in this position. Not even in dogpiles. Not even wrestlers.

If you're awake, and have enough gumption in your own veins to scratch your behind, this tech is superfluous. The time and energy spent in "getting it right" would serve you better spent throwing rear overhand rights on a heavy-bag.

Have at it,

Dave

Dave,
what can I say , I really enjoyed that post!
Rich

 

[kenpoworks]

Actually you are more on target than that sir as usual. 100% of what people physically learn from confrontation is not used by most, so that is not the reason. Statistically, unless people have an occupational mandate for physical confrontations, physical fights are almost non-existent among us civilized mature adults. (Excluding a couple martial arts neanderthals that shall remain nameless )

Do they happen? Yes, but very rarely, and only with a tiny percentage of the population. The simple answer is to prioritze training from the most likely scenarios to the least. And even that is affected by other factors. In your case sir, at your height, forget it. Even for short-statured people it is unlikely, and for you - King Kong and Might Joe Young are no longer with us. We must spend our resources wisely.

I've seen too many people talking about mounts, guards, and applying this principle and that ad nauseum, when just maybe they should spend their time learning how to block that right hand roundhouse to their grill. Most can't block a good punch because their blocks are lousy. They need to work on some decent blocking skills from what I've seen. Instead they prefer to fantasize about exoctic defenses for non-existent threats from super grapplers and stick/knife weiding urban ninjas in the shadows.

None of which I have ever seen in my time on the planet, and I've worked some bad-*** areas with some really scary people. Confrontation, physical and otherwise is what I do.

However everyone is free to do and train whatever floats their boat. I just answered the original question from my experience and knowledge perspective. Now the real question. Do I teach a response for it? Sure I do. I think the mechanics are worth knowing and its fits within my lesson plan for other material. But, if you don't have a clue to the mechanics to defend it, once its applied, than there's no point in working on a defense for a technique that is not only NOT likely to happen, but if it did, they wouldn't know how to counter it.

People often have diverse reasons for their training and that accounts for many perspectives. I always speak from Mr. Parker's perspective. Pure self-defense. I don't have time to get ready for some ninja beast, who most likely wouldn't last a minute in my neighborhood anyway. Some skinny 16 year old, in baggy pants and his hat on backwards would cap him, and move on to the next idiot.

Calling Dr. Dave. Get your hips in town so I can show you the counter for this one. Like the counter takedown material we worked on, once you get it - it's amazingly easy.

Thanks everyone.

Hi Doc,
spot on old boy, spot on.......so where does this leave TWIRLING SACRIFICE?
Rich

 

[Touch Of Death]

Hi Doc,
spot on old boy, spot on.......so where does this leave TWIRLING SACRIFICE?
Rich

Its a rolling check. It stays.:soapbox:
Sean

 

[Doc]

Hi Doc,
spot on old boy, spot on.......so where does this leave TWIRLING SACRIFICE?
Rich

In the very same category me ole china. People who grab you in those type of assaults tend to be your size and weight or larger. (usually larger) Why in the hell would I want to anatomically put myself in a poor position AND lift someone off the ground who weighs as much as I do? The reality is that technique is really an old jiujitsu/judo throw. That's what happens when 'entertainent wrestling' techniques creep into a commercial format, to extend the material and complete unnecessary categories. But you already knew that Rich.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

(Excluding a couple martial arts neanderthals that shall remain nameless )

Are you calling me nameless? It's on!

 

[kenpoworks]

In the very same category me ole china. People who grab you in those type of assaults tend to be your size and weight or larger. (usually larger) Why in the hell would I want to anatomically put myself in a poor position AND lift someone off the ground who weighs as much as I do? The reality is that technique is really an old jiujitsu/judo throw. That's what happens when 'entertainent wrestling' techniques creep into a commercial format, to extend the material and complete unnecessary categories. But you already knew that Rich.

I think it may be time to let this one go, I enjoy making my kenpo work for all shapes and sizes (hence the name) but this one relies just a little too much on brute strength or excessive dummying for my liking
So before I dump it Doc are you saying that there is no merit at all in practicing this technique.
I was training with a Jujitsu guy over the weekend and we discussed this very technique, he said stated that he discourages the interlocking of the fingers behind the head when training because if the legs are swept at the same time as the head is being forced down the drop is hard to control, the victim (training partner) will land heavily on the cocyyx and the shock of impact will be transferred to the weakest point the bent neck.
cheers me ole china
Rich

 

[Doc]

I think it may be time to let this one go, I enjoy making my kenpo work for all shapes and sizes (hence the name) but this one relies just a little too much on brute strength or excessive dummying for my liking
So before I dump it Doc are you saying that there is no merit at all in practicing this technique.
I was training with a Jujitsu guy over the weekend and we discussed this very technique, he said stated that he discourages the interlocking of the fingers behind the head when training because if the legs are swept at the same time as the head is being forced down the drop is hard to control, the victim (training partner) will land heavily on the cocyyx and the shock of impact will be transferred to the weakest point the bent neck.
cheers me ole china
Rich

Try this. From my understanding, after you step behind him with your left AND bracing his leg - step up on the circle with your right as you pivot on your left, and throw your left arm backwards as you do.

 

[kenpoworks]

Try this. From my understanding, after you step behind him with your left AND bracing his leg - step up on the circle with your right as you pivot on your left, and throw your left arm backwards as you do.

Doc,
I do this or something very similar when "ragging" up crashing wings.
I work on the 3 "nelson" techniques as a progression or degree of hold, not attempts, but rather the 1) hold is in on hands behind the neck, 2) the hands are interlaced but but on the back of the skull this time and 3) the hands are interlocked on the back of the skull with downward force being applied.
maybe I wont dump the "nelsons" just yet but dig around a bit more.
Respectfully
Rich

 

[Doc]

Doc,
I do this or something very similar when "ragging" up crashing wings.
I work on the 3 "nelson" techniques as a progression or degree of hold, not attempts, but rather the 1) hold is in on hands behind the neck, 2) the hands are interlaced but but on the back of the skull this time and 3) the hands are interlocked on the back of the skull with downward force being applied.
maybe I wont dump the "nelsons" just yet but dig around a bit more.
Respectfully
Rich

You shouldn't, I haven't. I just put them in the proper perspective as I demonstrate how to easily cancel any possibility of it happening. I'll share it with you when I see you, and then you tell me what you think.

 

[kenpoworks]

" I'll share it with you when I see you, and then you tell me what you think."

I look forward to it Doc.
Rich