Real combat vs Choreograph combat

[jkd friend]

Whats your take on the real vs the movies? I see it as a reach to perfection in the martial artist sense. Lol... as in frequency of Blocking and evasion with a complete show of skill. Sometimes real combat looks sloppy even by the most proficient at a art form. So would this be a unreachable goal to fight like choreography?

 

[sgtmac_46]

Whats your take on the real vs the movies? I see it as a reach to perfection in the martial artist sense. Lol... as in frequency of Blocking and evasion with a complete show of skill. Sometimes real combat looks sloppy even by the most proficient at a art form. So would this be a unreachable goal to fight like choreography?

Choreography requires the cooperation of both parties toward a pre-planned and practiced end goal........real fighting seldom involves a compliant partner.

 

[jkd friend]

Choreography requires the cooperation of both parties toward a pre-planned and practiced end goal........real fighting seldom involves a compliant partner.

I see your point but what i was getting at was the representation of the fight choreographed scene...

 

[Teufel Hunden]

I think it's an unreachable goal. If i understood you correctly, you're meaning you want to look spectacular in a real fight, correct? you might be able to deliver a perfect looking round house, or sock them with that one perfect punch, but most street fights (especially drunken ones), don't end up with two people squaring off and going to blows, usually they grab at each other with jerking motions, or push and shove, or tackle... anything but giving you that opportunity to look awesome defending yourself. Now, if the fight did end up on the ground, you could deliver some excellent looking Jiu jitsu finishes......

 

[jkd friend]

I think it's an unreachable goal. If i understood you correctly, you're meaning you want to look spectacular in a real fight, correct? you might be able to deliver a perfect looking round house, or sock them with that one perfect punch, but most street fights (especially drunken ones), don't end up with two people squaring off and going to blows, usually they grab at each other with jerking motions, or push and shove, or tackle... anything but giving you that opportunity to look awesome defending yourself. Now, if the fight did end up on the ground, you could deliver some excellent looking Jiu jitsu finishes......

I see you took the beauty approach. Not were i was going but good point.

 

[MJS]

Whats your take on the real vs the movies? I see it as a reach to perfection in the martial artist sense. Lol... as in frequency of Blocking and evasion with a complete show of skill. Sometimes real combat looks sloppy even by the most proficient at a art form. So would this be a unreachable goal to fight like choreography?

The 2 are very different and will obviously look different. Would it be an unreachable goal? I would say so.

 

[MJS]

I see your point but what i was getting at was the representation of the fight choreographed scene...

I see you took the beauty approach. Not were i was going but good point.

So, are we missing your point? If so, please be more specific as to what you're looking for. IMO, the people that've replied so far, have answered your question.

 

[jkd friend]

So, are we missing your point? If so, please be more specific as to what you're looking for. IMO, the people that've replied so far, have answered your question.

yes sir, i was getting at the skill they try and display. Its the skillfulness of the artist that makes it look good right?

 

[MJS]

yes sir, i was getting at the skill they try and display. Its the skillfulness of the artist that makes it look good right?

So, you're saying that if you're skilled it'll look pretty and if you're not, it'll look like garbage? No, thats not what I'm saying. For the sake of the movie, of course its going to look good. If it was poor acting, poor quality, it'll get poor reviews, and wont make any money.

Fact is, in real life, we won't know what the badguy is throwing at us, how he'll attack us, if there will be weapons, etc.

When I do spontaneous reaction drills with my techs., I have no idea what the other person is throwing. My goal is to defend myself. I'm not trying to impress someone with a flashy technique, I'm trying to avoid getting hit, and counter attacking. I dont care if it doesnt look picture perfect, I care about whether or not I get hit.

 

[jkd friend]

So, you're saying that if you're skilled it'll look pretty and if you're not, it'll look like garbage? No, thats not what I'm saying. For the sake of the movie, of course its going to look good. If it was poor acting, poor quality, it'll get poor reviews, and wont make any money.

Fact is, in real life, we won't know what the badguy is throwing at us, how he'll attack us, if there will be weapons, etc.

When I do spontaneous reaction drills with my techs., I have no idea what the other person is throwing. My goal is to defend myself. I'm not trying to impress someone with a flashy technique, I'm trying to avoid getting hit, and counter attacking. I dont care if it doesnt look picture perfect, I care about whether or not I get hit.

Yes but the imagination of the movie is perfected skill so when you try and defend yourself in the movie it is imagined at perfection.Thats all i'm saying the movie isn't suppose to be seen as i know he is about to do this, this and this but to fighters fighting at optimum skill.

 

[MJS]

Yes but the imagination of the movie is perfected skill so when you try and defend yourself in the movie it is imagined at perfection.Thats all i'm saying the movie isn't suppose to be seen as i know he is about to do this, this and this but to fighters fighting at optimum skill.

Thus why people need to be able to seperate the difference between fantasy and reality. If I knew what was going to be thrown at me, and trained it 2,000 times before the cameras started rolling, hell, I'd look like them too! LOL! But again, its a movie...people are supposed to look good. When the poop hits the fan, you're not going to look good. My skill is my ability to effectively defend myself.

 

[jkd friend]

Thus why people need to be able to seperate the difference between fantasy and reality. If I knew what was going to be thrown at me, and trained it 2,000 times before the cameras started rolling, hell, I'd look like them too! LOL! But again, its a movie...people are supposed to look good. When the poop hits the fan, you're not going to look good. My skill is my ability to effectively defend myself.

LOL...Yeah i guess i just like to look good sometimes without getting killed in real combat. Another unreachable goal to successfully defend yourself and look Great doing it all the time.

 

[Franc0]

Go to a bar, find the oldest, most staggeringly intoxicated person and tell him you think his mother is (a majorly deragatory statement) and you want him to defend her honor outside. If he does decide to fight you, then you have a good chance of pulling off some really cool looking moves that should actually work! :boxing:

 

[sgtmac_46]

yes sir, i was getting at the skill they try and display. Its the skillfulness of the artist that makes it look good right?

No, it's the choreography that makes it look good.......you just can't get the right camera angles on the street.

The problem with movies is that what's left out is the fog of war.......the inherent unpredictable nature of real life.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Go to a bar, find the oldest, most staggeringly intoxicated person and tell him you think his mother is (a majorly deragatory statement) and you want him to defend her honor outside. If he does decide to fight you, then you have a good chance of pulling off some really cool looking moves that should actually work! :boxing:

But even then I bet something goes wrong and it doesn't look anywhere near as fantastic.

Plus, as I mentioned before, without a few takes to get the right camera angle right, who's it going to look fantastic to?

 

[ap Oweyn]

I'm not sure I really understand the question either. "Optimal skill" has very little to do with it really. It's the cooperation and agreed upon timing that make those scenes look good.

Look at your own icon. Keanu Reeves in the Matrix movies. Looked pretty damn good. But not because Reeves is an optimally skilled martial artist. But because his choreographer and partners were doing their damndest to make him look good. Two of the guys playing agents in the second movie (Daniel Bernhardt and Matt McColm) are accomplished martial artists. Either of them could likely pummel Reeves in a real dustup. But that's not their job. Their job is to hurl themselves into a lightpost as he punches.

In even the most friendly sparring match, the other guy's job isn't to cooperate. It's to impose his will on you. And that changes everything.


Stuart

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Looking good in a physical encounter is unimportant. All that matters is that you can go home at night to your family. Films are fantasy and not the real thing. Bottom line they are two separate and decidedly different entities and should not be confused as being similar by any means. No one should worry about "looking good" in the moment because that is just not going to happen.

 

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I want it over quick and dirt, I dont even want it to look like I was doing MA, I want it to look like we tangled and something bad happend to him.
One of the things about Combat Jujutsu is in a real fight, it does not loo like a real MA to the untrained eye.
"The one guy came at the other, they collided and the attacker fell and busted his head open as the other guy ran over him and got out of here."
Is what a witness should be saying.

 

[Mider1985]

Whats your take on the real vs the movies? I see it as a reach to perfection in the martial artist sense. Lol... as in frequency of Blocking and evasion with a complete show of skill. Sometimes real combat looks sloppy even by the most proficient at a art form. So would this be a unreachable goal to fight like choreography?

I just finished watching WATCHMEN today.....adn the thing is only guys like that could do fight scenes like you see in the movie what i mean si super hero's? The guys were super strong way stronger then a normal person.........If your a normal person even if your strong you cant normally kick a guy or punch him just ONCE and boom thats it. He will probably get up and then the ganging up on will begin.

And i really dont think most people can move that fast. SOME people can but thats like Bruce Lee they could move super fast.....the point is THERE IS VERY FEW BRUCE LEE'S

On the other hand some movies are super unrealistic as to how much a human can take.....have you ever seen the movie THE ONE with Jet Lee? He picks up a police bike with ONE hand and hits a few guys with it......and they get up........a Police Bike weighs ALOT. if you got hit iwth that youd be down and done if not dead. There was other scenes were this guy who so strong is hitting people with all this force and they are still getting up i mean give me a break.

 

[Nishibi Ryu]

IMO it is impossible to do, ask the movie guys how many hours of rehersals did it take to make it look good, my bet would be 8hrs or more depending on its length. UFC is combat to a degree with equally skilled opponents and it is not even close to looking as good as the flicks. Half the time it is the falls that make it look good and we all know that most people fall like a bag of you know!