Rage Dreams

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

@Yanike- (almost) everyone here is telling you the same thing, get a trainer/instructor, and don't condition by yourself. You're response is that no one near you knows how to teach well, using bad yellow and purple belts as proof. How were the people that were higher ranks, were they struggling as much as yellow and purple belts? Those people are still beginners, so it's completely possible that if you are more talented, even if they have good instruction, you can catch on quicker than they can. Also, there may very well be someone near you who knows how to teach well. If you tell us where you live, there is a VERY good chance someone here at least knows a good teacher in that area, or possibly are an instructor/student in the same area as you. You could solve all the problems the other posters have been pointing out just by telling us where you live, so we can help you find a good instructor.

 

[Omar B]

He's not telling us where he lives because he's Trolling. Now everyone return to watching the Oregon game or UFC fight.

 

[WC_lun]

Yay Kansas State!

 

[shesulsa]

Many of us have been not only been training in martial arts for a long time, but have also been chatting on MartialTalk.com for a long time.

Oftentimes we get a new poster who asks questions about self-training. They are usually either young or located where the martial training is a joke or isn't what they're looking for.

This is an opportunity to reach, to teach. From some of the above answers, I have to wonder if any user here who insults such a noobie would do the very same in person? Is this how you would approach a white belt? A sales lead? While this knowledge may be old hat for you, it isn't for this youngster.

All respects intended... we all can use a reminder to clear our heads once in a while.


Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

 

[WC_lun]

I am known for being blunt with students. It saves both thier time and mine. So my post are exactly how I would talk to a young man telling me the things that he has claimed in his post. I don't go out of my way to be mean to anyone, but I will not shield young men like this from the truth in order to be polite. In time, under proper instruction, he could be a wonderfully skilled martial artist. Before that will ever happen though, he needs to understand some sense of reality. I also shudder to think what will happen to a young man if he is forced into using his current skills in a self-defense situation. His fantasy could get him injured. He needs to understand his error. I'm not being mean to the young man, I am trying to help him.

 

[shesulsa]

Ok. First for all people insulting no thanks to your post. Second it's funny how quick you judge me without knowing me. Some martial artist you are with your respect level.

Second.. I self teach myself because I have no other choice but to. The arts I want to learn aren't taught here. The arts that are here I've gone to made me leave the clubs because they seem fake and robotic. They try pushing their own books on you and it seems I'm paying for a book instead of learning the art. Also, I didn't like the fact the yellow and purple belts were struggling to perform techniques that I self taught myself to do in practice and sparing with others from time to time. I'm no master and I don't think I can beat the best of the best. I read on martial arts and learn what I can because I love it and it teaches me self. I know you can't learn everything from books and I know sparing with others not skilled in the art won't do much at all, but it's better learning something I love instead of learning another art that just seems like a robotic method of punch and block.

The dreams I have will sure pass and I'm sure they are from what I've been doing lately teaching myself calmness.

It is great that you have a desire to learn the arts you are trying to pursue on your own. Jason Brinn is logically correct when he says you can train on your own.

You must accept at some point you absolutely will need to train in a class under a qualified teacher.

If you can't find the art you have a passion for, train in something else... just get started. The teacher you get might be persuaded into bringing a master in the arts you love in for seminars. Or perhaps s/he knows one more locally not as well-known but available.

It would be very easy to tell you yes, you're surely doing well or hey, that's awesome. And that very well may be true. But training almost anything with an instructor in person is almost always preferable.

Sorry, I simply must echo the sentiment as well.

As for the dreams, they may be nothing but inner conflict resolving itself, it may be something else. Of course the responsible thing to do is talk to a shrink. They aren't just for "crazy people." The unbiased outside opinion is most valuable and can be a great asset. Don't freak out unless the dreams positively disturb you or you can't sleep out of fear of dreaming.

Good luck to you.


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[Chris Parker]

It is great that you have a desire to learn the arts you are trying to pursue on your own. Jason Brinn is logically correct when he says you can train on your own.

You must accept at some point you absolutely will need to train in a class under a qualified teacher.

If you can't find the art you have a passion for, train in something else... just get started. The teacher you get might be persuaded into bringing a master in the arts you love in for seminars. Or perhaps s/he knows one more locally not as well-known but available.

It would be very easy to tell you yes, you're surely doing well or hey, that's awesome. And that very well may be true. But training almost anything with an instructor in person is almost always preferable.

Sorry, I simply must echo the sentiment as well.

As for the dreams, they may be nothing but inner conflict resolving itself, it may be something else. Of course the responsible thing to do is talk to a shrink. They aren't just for "crazy people." The unbiased outside opinion is most valuable and can be a great asset. Don't freak out unless the dreams positively disturb you or you can't sleep out of fear of dreaming.

Good luck to you.


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Thing is, I don't think Jason is "logically correct". I think he's giving flawed information based on individual case studies that do not reflect the realities for the majority, as well as having a different idea of what would be considered "success" in this field. To address his post:

Ok - not sure why I am going to open my self up to this but I hate to see something I feel is wrong with out saying something so here goes.

You can totally SELF TRAIN.

Well, yeah, you can self train... but the thing is, what are you training in? Because it certainly isn't the specific martial art you think it is. And that's the real point... if our young poster thinks he's training himself, without instruction, in a specific martial art, he's deluding himself. The only way to learn a particular martial art is to be guided through it by someone who already knows it. End of story. You can become a decent fighter, develop your own ideas and concepts, and so on by yourself (the level of success can vary wildly, and will most typically be of the lower end of the scale), but to train in a martial art is to take on the lessons of those who came before you, with them there to guide you should you go off the reservation, and provide the next step of training when you are ready for it. Without knowing the art in the first place, you are not able to say why something is done one way and not another, and you don't even know what the next step is, let alone when you're ready for it. So when it comes to learning a martial art (specific), no, you totally can not self train without instruction. And no, books and DVDs are not instruction.

It's not the best method usually but it is not impossible. I have known MANY and there are plenty of examples today of people SELF TRAINING and getting much better than others who took the traditional route.

To learn a particular martial art, yes, it is impossible. To learn a skill set to enable you to fight, okay, that's not impossible, although if that's all you want (to learn "fighting techniques"), then it doesn't matter what system or style you do... but that's not the case in this (or any of a hundred other examples and threads here and elsewhere). In this case, we have the OP stating quite clearly that the arts he wants to learn aren't around... in other words, he wants a particular system. And you cannot teach yourself that, as, fairly simply, you don't know what it is to teach yourself in the first place.

I feel the real issue is to make sure what you are doing in your self training is safe. Get some guidance from someone or at least use methods of training that are generically agreed upon until you reach a level where you can go into whatever you want.

Hang on, you're saying it's possible to self teach martial arts, but you should get some guidance from someone to ensure the way you're doing it is safe? How is that different from getting some guidance to make sure you're actually doing it correctly in the first place (which should be a safe method anyway)? But, for the record, "generically agreed upon" training methods are something I'd disagree with... for one thing, the range of martial systems have very different requirements, which means that there aren't really universal methods of training in the first place.

Train what you love and believe in. If that means training on your own then so be it - don't train something you don't like or agree with just because you can get a teacher doing it. Life and the school of hard knocks can be your teacher if you listen.

What? The only way that works is if you're looking to just learn "fighting". Again, if you want to learn a particular martial approach, you need someone who knows it to teach you.. you can't just stumble upon it. So while I agree that, if you don't want to learn what's on offer nearby, don't learn it, that is far from saying that you can then just do what you want and think it's the particular martial art you want it to be. If your heart is set on a particular system, and there's no teacher around you, your choices are to recognize you can't train in it, or move somewhere where there is a teacher who can guide you. If the idea of giving up something, moving, or anything similar is too much sacrifice, or inconvenience for you, then you simply don't want it bad enough. That's fine... but don't delude yourself into thinking that makes what you're doing real, correct, or even vaguely related to the art you're wanting to train. In this sense, the real question for our OP is: How bad do you want it? You may have to make a big choice... such as to Get a New Wife. (http://www.koryu.com/library/dlowry7.html)

Trust me young man - you ARE NOT going to find many people who will agree with me or any here for that matter I'm guessing. I have trained over 30 years, had many schools and trained fighters and I am telling you that you CAN self train.

Please. Your thirty years doesn't mean you're right, Jason... especially when others with as much time in, or longer, all disagree with your basic conclusions. And not just in this area, I might add.

Be smart and use common sense. Body conditioning IMO does NOTHING to help in any way measurable. It is really a waste of time and only ends up hurting your body. Train to be fit, fast and flexible and you will outdo the 99%.

Seriously?!? Jason, it really seems sometimes that you are always only looking for the easiest, least uncomfortable way to approach martial arts... you have MMA guys who don't spar, you don't think there is any benefit to body conditioning, you think that the students should dictate what is taught.... Seriously, I wonder what you've done in your thirty years....

 

[lklawson]

From some of the above answers, I have to wonder if any user here who insults such a noobie would do the very same in person? Is this how you would approach a white belt?

I dunno. Would he walk into my Salle and tell me he's self-taught, that he's just a natural, and then 'splain to me that my students weren't any good?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Tez3]

I am known for being blunt with students. It saves both thier time and mine. So my post are exactly how I would talk to a young man telling me the things that he has claimed in his post. I don't go out of my way to be mean to anyone, but I will not shield young men like this from the truth in order to be polite. In time, under proper instruction, he could be a wonderfully skilled martial artist. Before that will ever happen though, he needs to understand some sense of reality. I also shudder to think what will happen to a young man if he is forced into using his current skills in a self-defense situation. His fantasy could get him injured. He needs to understand his error. I'm not being mean to the young man, I am trying to help him.

I agree and I say exactly on here what I'd say in person face to face with people.

 

[Sukerkin]

:chuckles: Whereas I am somewhat less polite in the real world when I have less time to think about what I want to say :lol:

 

[Tez3]

There's a difference in being a white belt who has come to learn and being someone who walks in saying 'I'm self taught, can't be bothered learning drills because I can do it all naturally and better than your students.'

 

[K-man]

I've been self teaching myself Wing Chun, Wushu, Jeet Kune Do, and other forms of martial arts for finding SELF. I've gotten really good from practicing, reading, and learning key techniques (some I've thought of) very well to the point it's natural.

Really, whether you can self teach or not is academic. Personally, I tried to teach myself karate back in the early 70s and to be honest it was total failure. However to teach yourself to fight? Maybe. But if you go back to the OP, yanike says he has learned multiple MAs. In fact at least five if the plural forms means at least two. Then on top of that there are techniques of his own that he has developed and the techniques all happen naturally.

I doubt that you could learn Wing Chun without guidance and I doubt you could learn JKD without guidance, but to learn both plus others .. ? I am in no doubt. Do I need to run the flag up the pole? :eye-popping:

 

[elder999]

I'm just gonna say a couple of things, really short, 'cause, while agree with most here in regards to training and self-training, I gotta point out that currently unbeatable UFC champ Jon Jones started out in MMA training himself. Of course, he's received quite a bit of training since then, and was a not to shabby wrestler (junior college champ) to begin with, but it's worth noting that, wrestling aside, Greg Jackson, who trains Jones, is also self-trained. He made Gaidojutsu up quite some time ago, adding judo, BJJ and kickboxing to a wrestling base.

Of course, they are the exceptions, not the rules: if I had "self-trained," hopeless congenital klutz that I am, I'd have probably been killed a long time ago....seriously

Oh, and those dreams? Do you like them, or do they disturb you? If you like them, don't worry about it. If they disturb you, get help.......

 

[Omar B]

It's easy to prove to him that he is not learning anything. Ask him questions about stance, angles, concepts that one can only learn in class, not from a movie.

 

[WC_lun]

Wing Chun is my art. I came to it after many years of studying other things. I can tell you without a doubt in my mind that I am correct, that you cannot train in it without feeling it. You cannot feel it without having contact and instruction. When a change in body by mere millimeters can change an exchange completely, you cannot understand the why's of that unless you experience it.

As far as learning to fight without instruction, it is possible if you have others you can practice with. The result will not be nearly as effecient or as effective as it would be if you had instruction though. Learning to fight by solo training, no.

 

[lklawson]

I'm just gonna say a couple of things, really short, 'cause, while agree with most here in regards to training and self-training, I gotta point out that currently unbeatable UFC champ Jon Jones started out in MMA training himself. Of course, he's received quite a bit of training since then, and was a not to shabby wrestler (junior college champ) to begin with, but it's worth noting that, wrestling aside, Greg Jackson, who trains Jones, is also self-trained. He made Gaidojutsu up quite some time ago, adding judo, BJJ and kickboxing to a wrestling base.

Of course, they are the exceptions, not the rules: if I had "self-trained," hopeless congenital klutz that I am, I'd have probably been killed a long time ago....seriously

Oh, and those dreams? Do you like them, or do they disturb you? If you like them, don't worry about it. If they disturb you, get help.......

Wrestling can be a really good martial art and it is a GREAT base to work and expand from.

Peace favor your sword (mobile)

 

[elder999]

Wrestling can be a really good martial art and it is a GREAT base to work and expand from.

Peace favor your sword (mobile)

Jon Jones taught himself to strike: the spinning backfist, the flying knee, the elbows-all techniques he's used successfully, and learned from Youtube videos-he taught himself a few other things as well, but he's Jon Jones :lfao: The boy's a freak, and the exception, as I've said, not the rule.

 

[WC_lun]

Jon Jones taught himself to strike: the spinning backfist, the flying knee, the elbows-all techniques he's used successfully, and learned from Youtube videos.

..and gotten good at them by training with others, some of which actually know striking. He was not a beginner, as he had a solid base in wrestling.

 

[Tez3]

There are very few boys I find who haven't been taught by someone usually another male, relative, PE teacher etc some form of punching at some time in their lives so learning to punch is rarely self taught. Some girls like myself are also taught by their dads lol but it's a rare boy that hasn't done a bit of even basic 'one two' punching. From that it's not hard to expand it a bit. It will be possible no doubt to teach yourself as Jones has but again this is limited, to learn a whole martial art by yourself from scratch is very near impossible, to learn more than one is damn near a miracle.

 

[Aiki Lee]

Yanike, what exactly are your goals for training in martial arts? I'm going to take an earlier quote from you because there are a few things in it I want to adress and ask about.

I self teach myself because I have no other choice but to.

No, you have several choices. Join a local school. If you don't like what is offered, then go find a school you like somewhere else. If you cannot get to this school due to finances, trasportation, or time constraints then you cannot train in your desired art until these restrictions can be taken care of.

The arts that are here I've gone to made me leave the clubs because they seem fake and robotic.

Are you saying you left on your own or that you were asked to leave? Also, what do you mean by fake and robotic? Perhaps you didn't understand what they were doing.

They try pushing their own books on you and it seems I'm paying for a book instead of learning the art.

Aren't you learning from books right now anyway? My art offers books and DVDs and we are required to have them It's like getting textbooks for a college course. You still need the teacher, but the materials help you study.

Also, I didn't like the fact the yellow and purple belts were struggling to perform techniques that I self taught myself to do in practice and sparing with others from time to time.

This has been mentioned before, but yellow and purple belts are considered beginners and should be struggling with a lot of things. If they were not experiencing difficulty then I'd say they have come down with a case of dojoitis. You mention here you spar with others from time to time. Do your sparring partners train in martial arts, and what kind of techniques are we talking about?

I'm no master and I don't think I can beat the best of the best. I read on martial arts and learn what I can because I love it and it teaches me self. I know you can't learn everything from books and I know sparing with others not skilled in the art won't do much at all, but it's better learning something I love instead of learning another art that just seems like a robotic method of punch and block.

It teaches you self what, exactly? Discipline? Confidence? Self-reliance? What is the thing you love that you are learning? It isn't any form of actual martial art without being instructed in it. Many martial arts training concepts are not intuitive and cannot be guessed at from looking at pictures or videos or reading about them. If you love a particular martial art, go train in it. Or, find out why you love it and find something you think fits that idea close enough so you can train somewhere else.

So, what do you want out of training? Do you want to learn how to fight? Are you looking for some exercise? Sport? Some kind of active meditation?