Racists idiots

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

May be slightly off topic, but since you guys are talking about the need of eradicating racism, just want to add that, from a psychological viewpoint, that's either incredibly unlikely or impossible. If it does happen, it will transfer to some other negative prejudices and stereotypes.

According to evolutionary psychology, people have it hardwired into us to form in groups and out groups, that way we can better protect our in groups. This relies on an idea that those that are in your "out group" are different then you in some way, and in general it assumes that people believe there own "in group" is superior to whatever they consider the "out group" although that's not always the case. This is generally done according to something definitive, ie: race, religion, location, but that's not always the case. The idea is that everyone, even people who don't view themselves as prejudiced, forms these groups, and views there own groups. I see it with many of my 'open-minded' friends, whom denounce any sort of racism/sexism/etc., but then will state that anyone who lives in texas is evil, or anyone in Kentucky is a hillbilly. It's very tough to fight the in group/out group mentality.

According to modern social psychology, people form schemas in their head, based on their own biases/experiences (these can be their own experiences or someone elses. For instance, I may have had girls cheat on me, and as a result, think women in general cheat. Or my dad may have told me when I was younger about how much women cheat, and as a result have the same opinion, without ever experiencing it myself). Schemas are not always negative, and aren't always inaccurate. In reality, schemas are a good thing most of the time; they help your mind digest information from the past and not having to reassess everything, or having your brain go into overload (ex: I have a schema about bears that they are dangerous, so I try to avoid them, and if I saw bear tracks I would not follow them. If I did not have that schema based on stories I've heard, I would either have to size up the tracks to see if they're scary, taking up time out of my day, or not think about it and end up as bear food). They're also accurate a good portion of our time. The issue is that our brains are so used to simplifying information like this, that it will unconsciously do the same about whatever, and again, it will generally take the most prevalent features of whatever it sees to make it's judgments, resulting in prejudice based on skin color/sex/etc. It's almost impossible to stop schemas, especially since you don't want to stop most of them, only some of them, and they occur without you even realizing it.

If anyone wants more information or clarification on either concept, let me know. If I wrote down everything I would be here for an hour, so I tried to shorten them to just the gists of each.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

May be slightly off topic, but since you guys are talking about the need of eradicating racism, just want to add that, from a psychological viewpoint, that's either incredibly unlikely or impossible. If it does happen, it will transfer to some other negative prejudices and stereotypes.

According to evolutionary psychology, people have it hardwired into us to form in groups and out groups, that way we can better protect our in groups. This relies on an idea that those that are in your "out group" are different then you in some way, and in general it assumes that people believe there own "in group" is superior to whatever they consider the "out group" although that's not always the case. This is generally done according to something definitive, ie: race, religion, location, but that's not always the case. The idea is that everyone, even people who don't view themselves as prejudiced, forms these groups, and views there own groups. I see it with many of my 'open-minded' friends, whom denounce any sort of racism/sexism/etc., but then will state that anyone who lives in texas is evil, or anyone in Kentucky is a hillbilly. It's very tough to fight the in group/out group mentality.

According to modern social psychology, people form schemas in their head, based on their own biases/experiences (these can be their own experiences or someone elses. For instance, I may have had girls cheat on me, and as a result, think women in general cheat. Or my dad may have told me when I was younger about how much women cheat, and as a result have the same opinion, without ever experiencing it myself). Schemas are not always negative, and aren't always inaccurate. In reality, schemas are a good thing most of the time; they help your mind digest information from the past and not having to reassess everything, or having your brain go into overload (ex: I have a schema about bears that they are dangerous, so I try to avoid them, and if I saw bear tracks I would not follow them. If I did not have that schema based on stories I've heard, I would either have to size up the tracks to see if they're scary, taking up time out of my day, or not think about it and end up as bear food). They're also accurate a good portion of our time. The issue is that our brains are so used to simplifying information like this, that it will unconsciously do the same about whatever, and again, it will generally take the most prevalent features of whatever it sees to make it's judgments, resulting in prejudice based on skin color/sex/etc. It's almost impossible to stop schemas, especially since you don't want to stop most of them, only some of them, and they occur without you even realizing it.

If anyone wants more information or clarification on either concept, let me know. If I wrote down everything I would be here for an hour, so I tried to shorten them to just the gists of each.

I understand that. I'm not stupid, and I'm pretty well-educated.

However, that's twaddle. It's letting people have a reason for being hateful crapbags, and I won't have it. I don't care what the core reason is for racism. Be a racist in my presence at your own peril. Simple as that.

 

[Xue Sheng]

May be slightly off topic, but since you guys are talking about the need of eradicating racism, just want to add that, from a psychological viewpoint, that's either incredibly unlikely or impossible. If it does happen, it will transfer to some other negative prejudices and stereotypes.

According to evolutionary psychology, people have it hardwired into us to form in groups and out groups, that way we can better protect our in groups. This relies on an idea that those that are in your "out group" are different then you in some way, and in general it assumes that people believe there own "in group" is superior to whatever they consider the "out group" although that's not always the case. This is generally done according to something definitive, ie: race, religion, location, but that's not always the case. The idea is that everyone, even people who don't view themselves as prejudiced, forms these groups, and views there own groups. I see it with many of my 'open-minded' friends, whom denounce any sort of racism/sexism/etc., but then will state that anyone who lives in texas is evil, or anyone in Kentucky is a hillbilly. It's very tough to fight the in group/out group mentality.

According to modern social psychology, people form schemas in their head, based on their own biases/experiences (these can be their own experiences or someone elses. For instance, I may have had girls cheat on me, and as a result, think women in general cheat. Or my dad may have told me when I was younger about how much women cheat, and as a result have the same opinion, without ever experiencing it myself). Schemas are not always negative, and aren't always inaccurate. In reality, schemas are a good thing most of the time; they help your mind digest information from the past and not having to reassess everything, or having your brain go into overload (ex: I have a schema about bears that they are dangerous, so I try to avoid them, and if I saw bear tracks I would not follow them. If I did not have that schema based on stories I've heard, I would either have to size up the tracks to see if they're scary, taking up time out of my day, or not think about it and end up as bear food). They're also accurate a good portion of our time. The issue is that our brains are so used to simplifying information like this, that it will unconsciously do the same about whatever, and again, it will generally take the most prevalent features of whatever it sees to make it's judgments, resulting in prejudice based on skin color/sex/etc. It's almost impossible to stop schemas, especially since you don't want to stop most of them, only some of them, and they occur without you even realizing it.

If anyone wants more information or clarification on either concept, let me know. If I wrote down everything I would be here for an hour, so I tried to shorten them to just the gists of each.

I know it will never go away, but I also know it should not be tolerated, and when it is targeted at members of my family no amount of psychological justification for it will work for me, doubly so when it comes with death threats. I am not a psychologist, but I have more psychology credits in my college history than any sane person should have if they were not a major in it, so I understand the psychology of the matter. Still not going to except racism

 

[Flying Crane]

Xue, I am sorry to hear about this.

I recommend pulling out a cell phone and getting footage, either photos or, better yet video, of the license plate and the person’s face. Video will also capture the nonsense he is speaking. And then file a police report and give them a copy of the video.

Just make sure that taking the footage won’t trigger a violent reaction, or that she is otherwise in a safe place in case he does try to get violent.

If he gets out and approaches her car in a threatening manner, she ought to run him down.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If anyone wants more information or clarification on either concept

Understood. Better to have the mindset of trying to get rid off if than to not do anything at all. I often see the defeatist position of "We can't stop it so why try to do anything about it." This often comes up during discussions about sexual harassment, guns, and murder.

I can't live forever but I'm going to do what I can to live as long as I can, and as healthy as I can. vs I can't live forever so I'll just be reckless since I'm going to die anyway.

I look at racism like weeds in the yard. I know I can't get rid of all the weeds, but I'm better off if I get rid of as many weeds as possible and hope my neighbor does the same. All it takes is that one house to give up on getting rid of weeds to affect the entire neighborhood.

You can't give it a pass or the issue will get worse and it will spread.

 

[JR 137]

Your OP is quite disturbing, @Xue Sheng But has can tell you as the son of an immigrant (my father is ethnic Armenian, born and raised in Beirut, Lebanon), the grandson of immigrants (maternal grandparents from Italy), and the step-son of an immigrant (stepfather born and raised in Peru), I can say without a doubt this is nothing new.

I’ve see firsthand and heard secondhand “you people come over here and take our jobs, start businesses, and send all your money out of our country” more times than I could ever count. I learned a great line from my father when I was in kindergarten - “what’s stopping you from getting a job or opening your own business?” If my father came here with one suitcase and $300, just about anyone could do what he’s done; he’s owned his own auto repair shop for going on 40 years now.

I’ve lost several friends and have alienated a ton of people who could’ve been friends over it. I hear about “those towel heads who come over and open up a corner store, then bring their whole family over” all the time. My reply - why don’t you open up your own corner store and buy your family a house, put your kids through college, etc.? What’s stopping you?”

Think everything was good until Trump was elected? How do you think it was for over a year or two for anyone who looked middle eastern? The Pakistani guy who owns a store down the road had bricks thrown through his window several times. People would come in to buy beer, he’d ask for ID, then they’d start a racist rant when they didn’t have it with them. When people didn’t like the estimate my father would give them for repairs or told them he couldn’t get their car in for a few days, the slurs would start.

There’s been no shortage of verbal insults, physical threats, nor attempts at physical violence since I can remember. I remember the Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton, W Bush, Obama, and now Trump administrations. Made no difference who the head honcho was nor is. There’s been different excuses though.

And I’ve never lived anywhere where a confederate flag was tolerated. I don’t think many people would say Albany, NY and lower Westchester County, NY are hotbeds for racism by any means.

 

[JR 137]

I hate to quote my own post, but something critical was missing...

Your OP is quite disturbing, @Xue Sheng But has can tell you as the son of an immigrant (my father is ethnic Armenian, born and raised in Beirut, Lebanon), the grandson of immigrants (maternal grandparents from Italy), and the step-son of an immigrant (stepfather born and raised in Peru), I can say without a doubt this is nothing new.

I’ve see firsthand and heard secondhand “you people come over here and take our jobs, start businesses, and send all your money out of our country” more times than I could ever count. I learned a great line from my father when I was in kindergarten - “what’s stopping you from getting a job or opening your own business?” If my father came here with one suitcase and $300, just about anyone could do what he’s done; he’s owned his own auto repair shop for going on 40 years now.

I’ve lost several friends and have alienated a ton of people who could’ve been friends over it. I hear about “those towel heads who come over and open up a corner store, then bring their whole family over” all the time. My reply - why don’t you open up your own corner store and buy your family a house, put your kids through college, etc.? What’s stopping you?”

Think everything was good until Trump was elected? How do you think it was for over a year or two for anyone who looked middle eastern? The Pakistani guy who owns a store down the road had bricks thrown through his window several times. People would come in to buy beer, he’d ask for ID, then they’d start a racist rant when they didn’t have it with them. When people didn’t like the estimate my father would give them for repairs or told them he couldn’t get their car in for a few days, the slurs would start.

There’s been no shortage of verbal insults, physical threats, nor attempts at physical violence since I can remember. I remember the Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton, W Bush, Obama, and now Trump administrations. Made no difference who the head honcho was nor is. There’s been different excuses though.

And I’ve never lived anywhere where a confederate flag was tolerated. I don’t think many people would say Albany, NY and lower Westchester County, NY are hotbeds for racism by any means.

It should’ve said “how do you think it was for anyone middle eastern looking for a solid year or two AFTER 9/11?” The Pakistani guy with the store that bricks were thrown through his window repeatedly, people acting like animals when they didn’t get what they wanted, when they wanted it, and so on.

I’ve seen it my whole life. The current guy who’s in charge is an excuse. Just like Obama was taking away things from white people and giving it to black people, GW Bush and how 9/11 was handled, Clinton’s “Ebonics” fiasco and affirmative action, and on and on. Blaming Trump is nothing more than the piss poor excuse of the day IMO.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Sorry, don't agree.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If you are in charge and you make a bad decision even when you have good data then that is on you. If I'm in charge of a class and I make a bad decision and someone gets hurt or picked on because of my decision. That's on me. It's not an excuse, it's a reality. The concept of "no one at fault" is an excuse.

In terms of U.S. presidents you can blame the people for putting bad politicians in office (it's the same as the weed scenario of giving bad things a pass). But after the politician is in that leadership role and makes decisions, the blame for that action will be on the leadership for the outcome, unless someone below the leadership didn't do their job. If they do their job and the outcome is still negative then it's on the leadership.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

It's called 'whataboutism' and it is a means of deflection without addressing the topic. I say X is happening because of policies set by Y, and rather than address my statement by confirming or denying it, the person with whom I am discussing the issues pulls a 'whataboutism' and says well, A happened because of B, so what about that? It attempts to say 'everyone is bad, so my guy's badness doesn't mean anything'. Yes, it does mean something and just because there is evil in the world does not let anyone off the hook for their responsibility for the evil that they themselves perpetuate.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

To clarify, none of my post was an excuse for racism. It was simple information about why racism exists, and the sad reality that it will not easily go away. It does not mean people should stop fighting racism, but shows exactly what it is you are fighting which IMO is always a good thing to know. You can also extrapolate that each person on here complaining likely has their own prejudices formed that we may or may not recognize, and should be aware of ourselves.

 

[Martial D]

To clarify, none of my post was an excuse for racism. It was simple information about why racism exists, and the sad reality that it will not easily go away. It does not mean people should stop fighting racism, but shows exactly what it is you are fighting which IMO is always a good thing to know. You can also extrapolate that each person on here complaining likely has their own prejudices formed that we may or may not recognize, and should be aware of ourselves.

No, no..discrimination of any kind is TOTALLY EVIL...

Unless it is against people that disagree, in which case STRING THEM UP AND BURN THEM!

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

As a side note, I find it interesting how people assume I am making excuses or making stances when I present factual information. This is not the first time, and probably not the last, that it will happen.

Since I have not stated my own personal belief; I think anyone who is being racist against any race (and I don't buy into the whole only white people can be racist idea I've seen recently), should be called out on it and corrected. I do not know how I would respond in Xue's situation, based on experience my response would be anger and fighting, but that would not be an option if I didn't see the person...However, our goal IMO should be to minimize racism/sexism/etc as much as possible and to fight against it, but not to believe that it can be eradicated, when it cannot.

 

[DaveB]

Your OP is quite disturbing, @Xue Sheng
....And I’ve never lived anywhere where a confederate flag was tolerated. I don’t think many people would say Albany, NY and lower Westchester County, NY are hotbeds for racism by any means.

Westchester not a hotbed for Racism?? Are you crazy?? Who do you think it is that keep trying to lynch those poor weird kids from the Xavier school!?!

 

[granfire]

well, welcome to America....
there is a reason I started having anxiety attacks since last year.

The sh** has been with us forever.
Because everybody is a little racist
(I wish jeff was still popping in on a regular basis, instead of posting cryptic song lyrics on FB)
but over the last 2 years the deplorables assumed they have been given Card Blanche to be nasty.
Racist, sexist, and just outright mean.
Strangely enough, I don't see much of it around here (Bama...we are quietly nasty...and keep Roy Moore around as pet diversion)
Some places errupting in outright violence have surprised me.
Having said that, I have not talked to my in-laws since last November.
You-know-who simply is not a decent man, any way you slice him.

But not being a person of color, and with better than average english skill and minimal accent, I fly under the radar.

Came across a few verbal morons, but they were religion based idiots...only borderline racist.

I find the differences in opinion stunning though.
the white guy wanting to go for the jugular, while the 'off white' guy suggests moderation in the response.
I do suspect that there, too, is the difference in experience.
The white guy does not have to fear to be gunned down in broad daylight, while the gun man gets an adda boy (or girl)
while our dark skinned friends have every reason to fear not just the run of the mill bigot, but LEOs as well.
I have to say the video of Philando Castile's last moments on earth are haunting, I am sure his young daughter will never be the same.

As female of no pigmentation, I do subscribe to the idea that one only goes as high as the throat in situations like this, because a swift bud nipping is the best way to deal with bullies.

But once they have graduated to verbally attacking strangers in a public place, I think calls for caution are warranted.
Because, you know, the response to shootings is more guns.
and every mentally unstable Tom, Dick , and Harry has an arsenal, acquired over the course of the last administration, fired up by the fear mongering of the NRA.

genital grabbing, gun slinging, racists....

the good thing is that all the fascist nazi scum is using the internet with abandon.
the net is forever, even if the GOP succeeds in restricting net neutrality.
Somebody will see the offensive posts and conserve them for posterity on Canadian servers.
'I followed orders' will never be an excuse anymore.

 

[JowGaWolf]

To clarify, none of my post was an excuse for racism. It was simple information about why racism exists, and the sad reality that it will not easily go away. It does not mean people should stop fighting racism, but shows exactly what it is you are fighting which IMO is always a good thing to know. You can also extrapolate that each person on here complaining likely has their own prejudices formed that we may or may not recognize, and should be aware of ourselves.

I have my own prejudices but they aren't filled with hate nor an intent to oppress.
Prejudice and Racism have slightly different meanings. Please don't equate one with the other. You can have prejudices about something and not have the hate or superiority complex that comes with racism. Like literally you can have a prejudice of ice cream flavors. But you can't be racists against ice cream. These words are not the same.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Because everybody is a little racist

This is also not true. Everyone has a little prejudice in them but it's not the same thing as being a racist. In addition to that, not everyone acts on their prejudice. It is not uncommon to see people make decisions that go against their prejudice. My thinking a culture sucks would be a prejudice. Me making the choice to experience a little of the culture that I think suck , is me going against that prejudice. This is not the same a racism.

 

[granfire]

This is also not true. Everyone has a little prejudice in them but it's not the same thing as being a racist. In addition to that, not everyone acts on their prejudice. It is not uncommon to see people make decisions that go against their prejudice. My thinking a culture sucks would be a prejudice. Me making the choice to experience a little of the culture that I think suck , is me going against that prejudice. This is not the same a racism.

It was a direct quote from an essay a dear friend (Ok, Jeff) was kind enough to share with me.
of course, we all have our prejudices.
but how we act on them is important.

personally I don't have time for BS.
a person will soon enough show you whether or not they are a-holes.
I have 'met' a bunch of great people on the net, where the personality comes first.
I have often been blown away, finding out that the person on the other end is either not as old as I thought, or not of the heritage I assumed (our default setting through formative years matter. and even in this day and age you come across people who will tell you 'up until so and so, I never really met anybody not <insert qualifyer here>. A good friend of mine told me she was quite old when she first started to interact with white people. She did not move here from Africa!)

 

[JowGaWolf]

Also keep in mind that racism isn't just a "white action" In the U.S. White vs whoever gets the most air play but there are many different non-white groups who are more than happy to be racists not only against other "non-white" people but also to white people.

I will say this much. It's a lot better now then it was when I was growing up. By the time I was 19, I had seen more elephants than interracial couples of any racial make up. It wasn't until I was in my late 20's that I began to see the change. While the 70's - late 90's were bad for me, it was still much better than what my parents when through. Now it's normal for many people see people of different races date, marry, and have children. But I think for some people this new "norm" is too much to handle so they say things like "take our country back" back from who? back from where?

While there were some good things in the past, social perceptions and social racism were not one of those good things. The pattern of history has proven that things get better as we move forward. Countries that move backward usually experience the opposite effect. Things get worse.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It was a direct quote from an essay a dear friend (Ok, Jeff) was kind enough to share with me.

Ok. got ya. sorry about how I directed my comment. it should have been to Jeff.

A good friend of mine told me she was quite old when she first started to interact with white people.

I can believe that. I know a few people like this. They went to school all black schools and they didn't have a white classmate until college. I usually tell them that they missed out. Even if I don't tell them that, you can see it through their actions that they missed out. I remember in college a black friend asked me "How do I hang out with white people, Koreans, Asians, and Hispanics?" It was a strange question to me because to me they were just people like anyone else. I didn't have to be one way or the other for those people to like me. Just be myself and let them decide. I think it was at that point that I stop taking my diverse social interactions for granted.

For whatever reason some people "live in a bubble" I've known people who lived in Baltimore, Maryland and never been 30 miles down the road to Washington D.C.