Quitting Martial Arts

[MarkBarlow]

I've been teaching for 27 years and there have been times when I had as few as a dozen students and as many as 85. The important thing (to me, at least) is that I've always taught what I wanted to teach and what I thought would benefit the students most. If I worried about trends, fads or retaining students, I sure wouldn't be teaching tradition-based Japanese Jujutsu. It will never have the popularity of TKD, BJJ or even ninjutsu but I can live with that.

My Sensei always said that he only taught so that he'd have someone to train with and I've come to see his point. If I'm teaching to keep students or to make others happy, I'm going to be pressured to modify the curriculum to suit the masses. I'm willing to continue to be a starving martial arts instructor and stay true to the path I chose a long time ago. There are enough folks out there who will share my viewpoint that I won't run out of students...I just can't quit my day job.

 

[lostinseattle]

If you feel so strongly that martial arts is about fighting and self defence why are you giving up?

You aren't practising self defence or fighting in doing so, you are practising yielding to the opposition. Do you not have that warrior spirit?

So others are teaching what you see as wrong or ill informed, if all of us that faced this gave up, then the people that spread the word in a different way to you would just win, there would be no one to speak our side, no one to teach our way.

If you do give up, make sure you are doing it for the right reasons and not because you are tired of fighting a battle.

It IS because I'm tired of fighting a battle. It's not like this is just a random decision. I've been trying to find a decent place to train for 15 years now, something that was up to the level of my old teacher that quit 15 years ago.

I originally quit his school because I went off to college and it was too hard to keep up lessons. I'd go back on breaks sometimes and for a couple of summers, but I didn't move back to that town.

It's just that MA now is NOTHING ... it's not designed anymore for combat. The military combatives that they used to teach back in WWII, Korea and Vietnam are even watered down now. They teach BJJ and stuff instead.

What I've found is that teachers want to do their thing. They want to make money. They aren't particularly interested in their students or real self defense. They require you to waste a lot of time because it's easier for them.

And the students are also coming in with pre-concieved notions and when somebody like www.wuji.com, a school like this, has a ton of students and everybody thinks he's great, when he's not a martial artist at all, when there's no combat in what he's doing, that just shows how ill informed the students and public are. They have no concept of what they need for self defense.

I don't really want to open a school because it would take a lot of time and trying to have to explain to people and deal with people and be a teacher is not something I'm really up for. And when one of my former teachers says that he doesn't think it's worth it either, and this is the best martial artist I ever met in my life, well that pretty much does it for me.

Sun Tzu said some battles should not be fought. After 15 years of banging my head against a wall I think I've exhausted all avenues, and honestly I'm tired of fighting.

 

[lostinseattle]

My Sensei always said that he only taught so that he'd have someone to train with and I've come to see his point. If I'm teaching to keep students or to make others happy, I'm going to be pressured to modify the curriculum to suit the masses. I'm willing to continue to be a starving martial arts instructor and stay true to the path I chose a long time ago. There are enough folks out there who will share my viewpoint that I won't run out of students...I just can't quit my day job.

Honestly, I don't think I'd be up for teaching, and given the people around here, it would definitely be a fight ... there would be a lot of political fighting, fights about lineage, fights about pretty much everything.

I probably should have quit 15 years ago.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Lostinseattle how far away are you from
Dan Anderson www.danandersonkarate.com

or Kelly Worden http://www.kellyworden.com/

Even if you are only close enough to go twice a month
maybe you should check these two guy's out before you
quit. Good luck.

 

[zDom]

One of the things I've found myself saying over and over again during the last several years is,

"You find what you look for."

If you are looking for a reason to quit, you will find plenty.

If you are looking for a way to continue your martial arts journey, you will find it.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Honestly, I don't think I'd be up for teaching, and given the people around here, it would definitely be a fight ... there would be a lot of political fighting, fights about lineage, fights about pretty much everything.

I probably should have quit 15 years ago.

Honestly, sounds like you haven't been trying hard enough. Practicing solid combat focused martial arts is very easy to do if you approach it logically. Hell even if you can't find realistic stuff where you live, you just alter your own training methods.
Myself and a buddy do it all the time in our aikido class to suit it more to our needs.
If you want martial arts done properly, then do it properly. What other people do has no relevance on that.

 

[lostinseattle]

Lostinseattle how far away are you from
Dan Anderson www.danandersonkarate.com

or Kelly Worden http://www.kellyworden.com/

Even if you are only close enough to go twice a month
maybe you should check these two guy's out before you
quit. Good luck.

I'm close to Kelly Worden but none of what these guys are doing looks very interesting. I mean, wing chun dummy? That's so 30 years ago.

I think the problem is, like the local Kenpo guy said, I got spoiled with my teacher from 15 years ago. Everybody since looks like granola.

 

[Andrew Green]

Seems kind of like quitting competitive swimming because most people put there kids into a program with a emphasis on water safety, and first aid, rather then really teaching them how to swim.

Or quitting Hockey because to many people are now playing roller hockey, everyone is wearing helmets and the younger leagues banned body checking.

Doesn't matter what everyone else is doing, there will always be a range of things getting done. If you want hard training, there will be a place to get it.

This isn't a watering down, its a growing up. As more people get interested in aquiring basic skills, they begin to outnumber those that are more commited, and want to bang a little harder.

Tae Bo is not watered down Muay Thai, it is a different activity, targeting a different group. The people doing Tae Bo are not likely to have even signed up for a Muay Thai class, and certainely never would fight. Doesn't effect Muay Thai one bit, nor do all the other schools that cater to non-hardcore-blood-sweat-and-guts martial artists.

 

[Brian King]

"I probably should have quit 15 years ago."

LOL sounds like you did and are just now admitting it.

Originally Posted by Blindside
Buh-bye. Maybe at some point you will learn to empty your cup.

agreed!
buh-bye and good luck

Brian

 

[grydth]

Okay, let's look at the site you illustrate as to supposedly what's wrong with the martial arts....... its an internal arts site.

Let's fact it..... I see Tai Chi as a martial art, but not everyone does...... and what difference? Why get stressed because people differ with me?

How does it affect me at all if one group with their teacher is doing Tai Chi as a weight/stress reduction...... another group of old folks is doing it for arthritis relief or defense against falls...... over there is an exercise group..... out that way are some elder hippies communing ?

So what if the teacher has 100 students - or 1000? So what if he becomes a millionaire?

This is their path in life.... why should I get an ulcer or a depression over it? Or quit what I am doing?

As long as it is not an outright fraud I wish them, students and teachers, all well. Many are getting from the art just what they are looking for... isn't this a good thing?

I do not understand why a dedicated martial artist - whose strength flows from within - should be so affected by the doings those from without.

 

[Xue Sheng]

So I had a long talk this afternoon with an old friend that I used to train with back in the '80s. He was teaching then and a bit in the early '90s he had a school, but he closed it.

He said that he closed his school because he saw a disturbing trend which was the watering down of martial arts along with a trend towards teaching just for making money, and he said what he found was the students SUPPORTED this watering down because they didn't want to deal with sparring/combat and self defense techniques.

He said new students would come in with their parents and were more interested in forms for tournaments and 'character building' rather than actually learning a martial art for self defense.

In addition, he said they couldn't tell the difference between what he was teaching, which was more self defense oriented, and something that was watered down and didn't have a lot of practical applications.

So rather than trying to advertise and compete with watered down TKD and karate, he quit teaching.

Basically his comments support what I've come across the past 15 years or so which is a gradual watering down of martial arts until it doesn't seem what people are teaching out there is really martial arts anymore, but rather just something really bad.

So that's it. I formally retire from MA. I've had it.

I have been here before, I was with Taiji about a year ago, and I had felt that way for 2 years prior, and after 12 years of training I pretty much quit. But after much thought, much posting and much complaining it came to me…. I can complain or I can train…. so I trained. If I do teach again it is likely I will have fewer students that many other Taiji schools because, as I have been told, I am to hard a teacher and I expect too much from students

There are tons and tons of people out there looking at martial arts for many different reasons and the only thing that really matters is why YOU train and what YOU want to get out of it.

There was a very good TKD teacher in my area a few years back and he had a very small school. Then one day a couple of his students got together and started their own school (without his permission) and they took off. They have the biggest TKD schools I have ever seen teaching a WHOLE lot of people and none of them are any good.

The original teacher with the small school let the bastards win; he closed up shop and left the area. So now we have lost a very good TKD school he has long since been forgotten by most and the other schools are still going strong producing more and more bad students.

Quitting is NOT the answer and you will hopefully figure that out on your own before you walk away and if you are truly concerned about the state of TKD I can tell you that you will figure it out after you walk away form it.

So you have to decide if you are going to let the BS teachers out there win or are you going to fight back.

You quit the ones watering it down will still be there training others to water it down even more. You stay and teach just one the true art and instill in that one a love for that art…. you win

It’s your call….

 

[lostinseattle]

The original teacher with the small school let the bastards win; he closed up shop and left the area. So now we have lost a very good TKD school he has long since been forgotten by most and the other schools are still going strong producing more and more bad students.

You quit the ones watering it down will still be there training others to water it down even more. You stay and teach just one the true art and instill in that one a love for that art…. you win

You know, I was talking about that with this teacher as well about 'the art'. He taught what he learned in the military, on the street and from various teachers.

His training started out with plain street fighting, then military combatives, then he came back from the war and trained with a friend of his from the military who had picked up a Chinese system in Korea. They reworked the military combatives making them more efficient and lethal together.

Then, he reworked it some more adding in a lot of Bruce Lee's stuff, and then added in Chow Li Fut and taiji.

At that point, and that's when I studied with him, he was working on a lot of multiple attacker stuff. He'd invite a lot of different people to come and spar, people from boxing, different martial arts, whatever. He also loved going to tournaments and especially liked faking people out and then sweeping their legs out.

He was the best I ever met. Nobody around here is anywhere even 1/3 as good as he was when I studied with him. The people around here they say are so great like the JKD people, or Dave Harris or anybody aren't anywhere near the same level.

Now he's having fun playing with his grand-kids and has a small vineyard.

To build up a school and introduce all that stuff into it, and get people working on that stuff, is just going to be too difficult. I'm not interested in doing it, not with the commutes, people's attitudes around here and all of that.

Anyway I don't expect anyone will agree with my decision, but I think I should have done it a long time ago.

 

[lostinseattle]

"I probably should have quit 15 years ago."

LOL sounds like you did and are just now admitting it.




agreed!
buh-bye and good luck

Brian

No, I didn't quit. I spent 15 years looking for somebody as good as this teacher, and never found it. After talking to him after so many years, it's pretty obvious why I didn't find it. I didn't realize he was probably one of a kind.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

No, I didn't quit. I spent 15 years looking for somebody as good as this teacher, and never found it. After talking to him after so many years, it's pretty obvious why I didn't find it. I didn't realize he was probably one of a kind.

Not likely. Good martial arts training= very easy to do.
If you're willing to make an effort.

 

[lostinseattle]

Not likely. Good martial arts training= very easy to do.
If you're willing to make an effort.

Not really. At least around here to get training partners you have to talk for hours, deal with people's egos, everybody thinks they're the best ... it always turns into social hour. It's very hard to get any real training in.

And every school wants you to do THEIR thing, which means that until you get to spar multiples, if at all, you have to do their basics, most of which are done wrong (weak bones of the wrist outwards, stances too high, teaching 'blocks' (which aren't really blocks at all)).

Bottom line is 99% or more of the stuff out there is just bad. Sorry to say it, but things have been watered down now where most all that's left is pretty much beer ... not hard alcohol and definitely not moonshine.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Not really. At least around here to get training partners you have to talk for hours, deal with people's egos, everybody thinks they're the best ... it always turns into social hour. It's very hard to get any real training in.

And every school wants you to do THEIR thing, which means that until you get to spar multiples, if at all, you have to do their basics, most of which are done wrong (weak bones of the wrist outwards, stances too high, teaching 'blocks' (which aren't really blocks at all)).

Bottom line is 99% or more of the stuff out there is just bad. Sorry to say it, but things have been watered down now where most all that's left is pretty much beer ... not hard alcohol and definitely not moonshine.

What you're basically saying is you want to start up in someone elses system, but not have to actually learn their system?

 

[terryl965]

Not really. At least around here to get training partners you have to talk for hours, deal with people's egos, everybody thinks they're the best ... it always turns into social hour. It's very hard to get any real training in.

And every school wants you to do THEIR thing, which means that until you get to spar multiples, if at all, you have to do their basics, most of which are done wrong (weak bones of the wrist outwards, stances too high, teaching 'blocks' (which aren't really blocks at all)).

Bottom line is 99% or more of the stuff out there is just bad. Sorry to say it, but things have been watered down now where most all that's left is pretty much beer ... not hard alcohol and definitely not moonshine.

Sorry I know for a fact there are some great MA schools in your area, let me ask you this. What type of training do you want I know of school that you will need help getting to your car after each practice and then I know some that will push you but not let you break?

I was also wondering why you would not be able to find someone witht he same desire you have in such a big place, maybe just maybe you do not want to train anymore and this is the easier way out for you putting the blame on other people.

Now before you go and get all mad as hell remember I said maybe, look deep down inside and let me know and I will point you in the right direction.
Talk to you later

 

[grydth]

No, I didn't quit. I spent 15 years looking for somebody as good as this teacher, and never found it. After talking to him after so many years, it's pretty obvious why I didn't find it. I didn't realize he was probably one of a kind.

From my experience in dealing with suicidl people, I do not think you want to quit. If somebody wants to quit practicing MA or quit living, it is as easy as snuffing out a candle.

Most people do not want to die, and remain rational enough do perform acts we call cries for help. I think that is what you are doing here, and if so that is a good thing. Now you just have to listen......

Any human endeavor will present you with charlatans, fakes, weaklings and elixer salesmen. Any class will present you with poor students, egomaniacs, those looking for a ticket punch. There are also good schools and good friends waiting to be made.

By your rationale, the Apostles would've quit when Christ was gone. Follow their example - or that of your revered teacher.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I am sorry but this is why martial arts are getting watered down, people either give in to it or they out right quit. You quitting doesn't help the situation at all.

 

[MarkBarlow]

No, I didn't quit. I spent 15 years looking for somebody as good as this teacher, and never found it. After talking to him after so many years, it's pretty obvious why I didn't find it. I didn't realize he was probably one of a kind.

I feel the same way about my Sensei and I trained with him for 20 years. When he died it left a huge hole in both my training and my life. However, it wouldn't have shown him much respect to pack things up and go home. I teach the techniques he taught me (and the techniques that were taught to him by his sensei, etc...) and it gives me comfort and pleasure to think of that unbroken line.

Much of what you're saying in contradictory. You don't like what's happened to martial arts but you feel free to say that a traditional training aid like the wooden dummy is archaic. It seems to me that you've got a script you want everyone to follow. Unfortunately, life doesn't work that way. If you were truly serious about training, you'd find someone of a similar mindset. As someone else pointed out, if you stand on the doorstep and yell that no one is worth your time, no one is going to rush up and prove you wrong.

It saddens me to hear someone say that they've quit training because martial arts aren't as good as they used to be. Martial arts are made up of martial artists. If things aren't what you want them to be, change them or lose the right to complain. An individual's martial arts in a pretty small world. You can't focus on your own training if you're worried that the McDojo down the street is "cheapening' all the martial arts. Just do the best you can to see that "your" dojo keeps training the way it should.