questions

[Cruentus]

moromoro...

1. I wouldn't judge people by their "rank" or "status;" if anything you'll save face if someday you get whipped by someone with no rank at all. I have met 1st degree's and below who have better fighting skills then some 5th degree's and above. Hell, in Balintawak I have "no rank" because Manong Ted Buot prides himself on not giving out rank or certificates. Cebu West might very well be one of those with a low rank, but who could whip your @$$. Ya never know.

2. I understand you not appreciating the insult, but I feel that you have brought it on yourself. I think that is probably the 1st insult that I probably have ever read from Cebu West; he usually has nothing but positive things to contribute. You, on the other hand, have been so negative on MT that people don't know when to take you seriously. As far as I understand, people get suspended for repeatedly violating the rules, which you repeatedly do. People aren't suspended for 1 insult, as in Cebu Wests case.

3. For someone who likes to repeatedly insult people, and then challange them, that was kind of "tattle-tale-ish," don't you think? Do you go run and tell Mr. Navarro, or your mom if you are lossing a fight? Sorry, there goes my sarcasm again.

Nobody likes a tattle-tale, anyways.
:shrug:

PAUL

 

[John J]

I'm suprised that you honestly believe that moromoro has made some valid points.

My beliefs are based on the discussions on the FMA - General forum and some on the Modern Arnis forum. From what I've seen, not only does he have valid points he has addressed topics of much needed attention.

So when he makes his little statements of "controversey," I don't think that he is being unique, or on some sort of cutting edge. No one is reading him and thinking, "Wow, this guy just tells it like it is, and he isn't afraid of the politics or controversy; he must be real friggin' special!" People who read him just think that he's a dick.

Sorry, but I don't admire him either, for any of the reasons you wrote. I do however, admire his honesty to speak out on all the B.S. and respect his views as a Filipino practitioner back home. I also don't consider him a dick.

If I am mistaken here, please direct me to a thread where he has made a valid point that wasn't overshadowed by an insult, an overgeneralization, or a slam, or an overall arrogent attitude, or something of the kind.

Again, I must reiterate that I couldn't care less about his strong approach. What matters to me most are the issues he presents.

So, John J, tell me what you think. I do value your opinion.

Could it simply be that non-Filipinos do NOT see the negativity and disrespect of such issues towards our culture, heritage & history in the same way as we do? I say this simply for further reasoning.

I was born here and consider myself just as American as any of you, maybe even more. However, I am Filipino and it didn't take me long to realize that the arts are bastardized by the FMA "community" here. Personally speaking, I'd like to see more Filipinos practicing and showing their pride for these arts.

 

[Cruentus]

Thank you for your reply and your opinion. However, in what constructive manner has moromoro brought up ANY important issue? I asked for some specific examples so I could stand corrected here. Thusfar, I haven't seen any. If you can bring one to my attention, I think that this entire forum would be extremely happy to look.

You see, I don't mind a strong approach. His approach isn't "strong," though. I don't mind an approach that's like a rot wilers bark; loud, strong, and to the point. His approach is more like a yipping chawawa.

Could it simply be that non-Filipinos do NOT see the negativity and disrespect of such issues towards our culture, heritage & history in the same way as we do?

Your reasoning that you used was that as a Filipino American it didn't take you long to figure out that the FMA community here in the U.S. has bastardized the FMA. I am not in disagreement with you there, but let's examine why this has happened. The reason this has happened is mainly due to instructors, Filipino as well as American, who are more concerned over profit then quality martial arts. And yes, many non-filipinos might not recognize the difference due to a culture gap. The question is, though, is it their fault? These non-filipinos who simply just don't know better, should they be blamed and chastized for exploiting Filipino culture? I would think not. If your to blame anyone, blame these american AS WELL AS FILIPINO instructors who know better, but who are focused on trying to make a buck. They are the exploiters.

So what's the solution? It sure as hell isn't slamming on any non-filipino who is dilegently trying to learn FMA. It isn't broadly chastizing an entire "community" either. I would conject that it would be better to try to educate people on the proper aspects of your culture instead. Get those who want to honestly want to learn true FMA together, regardless of background, training level, or ethnicity, to team up against exploiters. Now THERES a solution.

Anyways, with moromoro I haven't yet seen an attempt to educate, or come up with a constructive solution; only an attempt to slam others so he can feel superior. He would have a hell of a time educationg anyone at this point anyways, because outside of 2 people (you and Kuntawman) everyone else thinks moromoro is a dick. In fact, I wish I could start a thread with a poll asking everyone if they think he is a dick or not, so you can see that I am not alone on this one, but I have a funny feeling the mods. wouldn't find that one to be very approriate. Bottom line: if moromoro wants people to look at him differently at this point, it require quite a bit, such as a new thread with a public apology, and a sincere effort to change his behavior. I doubt that I'll see that in my lifetime. What I can't believe is that you actually still support him and what he says. Regardless, you are entitled to your opinion.

In my opinion, though, there is nothing wrong with pointing out problems, especially if it is an attempt to find a solution. There is something seriously wrong with running your mouth so much and with such a bad attitude that no one can really decifer what the problem is in the first place. This is something maybe you should think about.

PAUL

 

[Jill666]

Once again Paul finds a nice way to phrase what I would otherwise put in another way.

Moromoro has repeatedly phrased things in such an atagonistic manner that the message gets lost. And his attitude toward women is poor, at best. That is why I do not read anything he has to say.

 

[Cebu West]

Has anyone noticed the degradation of the Filipino boards on Martial Talk? Since the return of moromoro there has been nothing but negative posts and insults. He is dragging us all down to his level. We need to get back to a forum we can be proud of. I am as guilty as everyone else and even as I write this I am tempted to T off on this guy. I was full contact, no pad fighting before this guy was even born and I'm letting him get under my skin. So I will stop that be ignoring any post that moromoro makes in the future. If you can't say anything nice, say nothing at all. Never in my life have I really disliked someone without knowing them, but I guess there are exceptions to everything. And since I've already been warned by the moderators for using those nice red smileys with the raised finger I'll stop here.

SAL

 

[thekuntawman]

when it comes to bastardizing the philippine arts, i do blame the filipino teachers, rather than the students. i think the students dont know any better, so if there first introduction to the FMA is from the commercial style arnis/eskrima/KALI, then that is what they swear by. nobody wants to hear that the method he is learning is less than the best.

but at the same time, i blame people for rejecting the truth when they hear it, including the students. how many times did people fight it when they hear that there is no "kali" in the philippines, and nobody does kinomutai, pananjakman etc. they even get mad when they hear you say it. i stopped posting in the bladeforums because i was talking to brick walls. every time i said what was false in the FMA they cried that i am always trying to discredit someone or i am rude.

i would be rude if i let people go around talking about something they dont know about. am i suppose to act like i am talking to a small child and say it softly? if we are all men (and women) grown, then why get so upset when somebodys opinion is different from your own.

about moromoro, he talks like i did when i first came to the forums. nothing wrong with that. some people are just blunt to the point. its actually laughable how hurt people get when you speak your mind. if you want to disagree, then fine. if you want to get all pissed off and YELL....fine! arent we all adults?

anyway i forgot my point, so when i think about it i will post again.

 

[John J]

The question is, though, is it their fault? These non-filipinos who simply just don't know better, should they be blamed and chastized for exploiting Filipino culture? I would think not. If your to blame anyone, blame these american AS WELL AS FILIPINO instructors who know better, but who are focused on trying to make a buck. They are the exploiters.

First let me say that I am NOT blaming non-Filipinos. Before allowing your personal anger to insinuate otherwise, read carefully. Blame is a strong word that is why I said, " do NOT see...in the same way as we do and to find further reason?". It was just something else to consider PERIOD! I absolutely agree with you that Filipino instructors should know better and if anyone is to be blamed, it is them.

This is the problem with "written" dialogue, it may transfer a different message or in a tone not intended. I will try to reply with more detail later.

Right now, I am trying to retreive a rather loooong reply to the other thread. I tried to submit it but because of the expired time, it asked me to login again. After that, I could not retreive it. Can anybody help or do I have to start all over again?

Thanks.

 

[Guro Harold]

Originally posted by John J
Right now, I am trying to retreive a rather loooong reply to the other thread. I tried to submit it but because of the expired time, it asked me to login again. After that, I could not retreive it. Can anybody help or do I have to start all over again?

Thanks.

Yeah John J,

This has happened to me before. If you think that the post is going to long or if you might have to add a picture, then I suggest using and saving in WordPad first.

Best regards,

Palusut

 

[Cruentus]

Wow, man, that sucks about losing your post. I have had that happend before, and I was never able to retrieve mine. A suggestion for next time would be if you know that you are going to write a really long one, write it in "word" first, then cut and paste it on MT. This will save you from losing anything.

Good luck with that.

More later!

 

[Cruentus]

LOL Palusut was like 2 saconds faster then me with his post!

 

[Cruentus]

This is the problem with "written" dialogue, it may transfer a different message or in a tone not intended.

I totally agree! There is a serious problem with the written word, especially on the net. For instance, I'm not angry, and I haven't been emotionally upset or angry in any of my posts this week. The manner in which I post may not convey this message sometimes, however.

2nd of all, I do not think that you are blaming non-filipinos for some of the problems within FMA community. I do not think that you are the one "slamming" non-filipinos who are trying to diligently learn FMA. However, thusfar your buddy moromoro HAS been slamming others, particularly non-filipinos, since he started posting here on MT. You had said that you are in agreement with what he has to say. So has Kuntawman. When you two say that you support what he says, not only do you justify his behavior and give him more "fuel" to act like a child, it CAN sound like you also would like to see non-filipinos get the slam, or the blame for some of the "explotations" that have occured.

Now, I know that you are more logical then to believe that it is "americans" who are to blame. I know that Kuntawman is also more logical then that as well. I hope that you guys understand that I DO NOT think that some "american" students and teachers ARENT to blame either. Many american students and teachers, as Kuntawman put it, "reject the truth when they hear it," or outright decide that exploitation is a good way to boost their ego's and make a buck, so they go for it. And I also think that you are correct to say that non-filipinos might not notice when Filipino culture is being exploited, and might not be insulted. This would make sense.

Regardless, here are my points:

1. It isn't about race, it's about people. There are people out there who are going to exploit FMA for profit, pseudo-fame, or what have you. These people are red, yellow, black, white, green.....and every color, race, creed, and religion imaginable. There is no one "culture" or "race" to blame. There are also many people, Filipino's and non-Filipino's alike, who don't want to see FMA exploited. It should be those people against the exploiters, and race shouldn't be an issue. The minute someone makes a generalization such as "all 'american' FMA are turning into Mcdojo's," a generalization has just been made that turns it into a race issue. "The message" needs to be carefully thought about before we post something. This also needs to be carefully thought about before we support someone elses post, or it will look like we are supporting a message that we really do not agree with.

2. I've said this once, but it's worth repeating. There is a difference between being "blunt" or "not afraid to speak your mind" and being an insulting, overgeneralizing, jerk. The prevailing attitude I keep hearing from you and Kuntawman is "moromoro just speaks his mind, and there is nothing wrong with that." Nobody would disagree with the notion that it is good to speak you mind. There is a difference between speaking your mind and slamming and insulting people so badly that know one can decifer what your point is in the first place. Moromoro hasn't been meerly speaking his mind up until this point; he has been overgeneralizing, slamming, insulting, and angering other people on this board. And guess what.....there IS something SERIOUSLY wrong with that, and there is something VERY wrong with supporting that.

John J, I like what you have to say on this board. I just think that when you decide to back someone up, you had better seriously know why your deciding to back them, and what message your sending too others by deciding to do so.

respectfully,
PAUL
:asian:

 

[dearnis.com]

the kuntawman wrote "about moromoro, he talks like i did when i first came to the forums. nothing wrong with that. some people are just blunt to the point. its actually laughable how hurt people get when you speak your mind. if you want to disagree, then fine. "

ummmm... Not really. While you have certainly stirred the pot a few times your attacks were against things, not people, and if you did anything "wrong" it was only stating your case so firmly that people did not give a fair listen.
I have never seen you, on this list or others, be deliberately rude or ignorant to someone you were disagreeing with.

 

[arnisador]

You may also type in MartialTalk and type CTRL-A, CTRL-C to copy your message before attempting to post it. I too have lost long posts due to network hiccups. We have no fix, regrettably.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[moromoro]

well i was trying to find out a way to reply....in a nice manner

firstly i dont believe i have never insulted anyone in this forum who did not deserve it.

Look at the your pathetic post the guy ask for help in a forum on what to teach his class.... now this is completely unacceptable in any martial arts (maybe not taeBo)

This is just one example of the bastardization of the FMA in the west...... (dont care about culture dont care about skill just certificates and the amount of students,) its like having an attitude of "great i know plenty of drills i can start a class now".....
(thank god i come from systems with no drills---- per se)

Sorry guys but this is not how it is done back home.....

also i have said in the past that i thought a certain poster was S**t it didnt represent the filipino flag correctly......

In the U.S and the west in general it seems that the FMA are sold.

What i have seen in Martial talk is almost a complete disrespect for the FMA and its varied history and teachers, people on this forum bite at you when you say go to the philippines and practice there....

for all you Modern Arnis practitioners i can guarantee that the level of modern arnis in the philippines is a whole lot better than in the U.S. NOW WHATS YOUR OPINION ON THIS!!!!!

with moromoro I haven't yet seen an attempt to educate, or come up with a constructive solution;

now my chance to educate.....

firstly dont disrespect other FMA just because they dont bother to have front page ad's on blackbelt magazine or the like..... advertising doesnt mean it is better...

Dont train for the rank (this is very evident in japanese ranking structure FMA- which i believe has no place in traditional FMA) train for the skill....

If you can train with the source or his closest representative...
no point learning with an instructor given by another down the line instructor..

also show some bloody respect for our culture, if you want to become an eskrimador one of the prerequesite would at least be to go to the philippines and do some training there (cross training)

also the FMA are larger than techniques but most of you especially the westreners will never learn other aspects of it such as oracion , kulam and other spiritual aspects of it.......... dont start to cry why not firstly you dont know the language, you dont know the culture.....

hope this will enlighten you

thanks

terry

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by moromoro
firstly i dont believe i have never insulted anyone in this forum who did not deserve it.

I'd like to point out that insults are unwelcome here whether they are deserved or not. This very much applies to all parties.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[Bob Hubbard]

for all you Modern Arnis practitioners i can guarantee that the level of modern arnis in the philippines is a whole lot better than in the U.S. NOW WHATS YOUR OPINION ON THIS!!!!!

Are we scoring by Belt Rank, pure martial ability, or knowledge of the art?

Belt Rank -
Highest ranks in the US as given by GM Presas before his death = 6th degree
Highest ranks in the PI as given by GM Presas before his death? I dont know.

Highest current ranks:
US - 7th
PI 8th or 9th.


Pure Martial Ability:
Toss up. Sparing and tourny don't = combat skills. Depends. Got any names?


Knowledge of the art
The US. GM Presas spent the last 2 decades refining the art here, not in the PI. The PI Modern Arnis and the US Modern Arnis are 2 seperate but related things. The PI in the last few decades did not have the constant exposure to Remy refinements and such. Modern Arnis is an evolving system, and as such, its more recent evolution was done in the US. If you are scoring this on what Modern Arnis was within the last 5 years of Remys vision for it, the US has teh clear superiority.


Your move.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by moromoro
for all you Modern Arnis practitioners i can guarantee that the level of modern arnis in the philippines is a whole lot better than in the U.S. NOW WHATS YOUR OPINION ON THIS!!!!!

How can you say that? Have you ever seen any Modern Arnis people train in the PI or the states?

 

[KenpoDragon]

Originally posted by moromoro
well i was trying to find out a way to reply....in a nice manner

firstly i dont believe i have never insulted anyone in this forum who did not deserve it.

Well that's your opinion, and your entitled to it.

Look at the your pathetic post the guy ask for help in a forum on what to teach his class.... now this is completely unacceptable in any martial arts (maybe not taeBo)

Once again only your opinion. If someone is young and a new teacher, then why not help them and give them some suggestions. Instead of insulting them, you should help them, insulting them only makes you look small.

This is just one example of the bastardization of the FMA in the west...... (dont care about culture dont care about skill just certificates and the amount of students,) its like having an attitude of "great i know plenty of drills i can start a class now".....
(thank god i come from systems with no drills---- per se)

Personally my Kali instructor only charged his students $15 a month, that's right $15 a month. He wasn't worried about the money or the amount of students. There was a handfull of students that were loyal, so he took it upon himself to share his knowledge with us. Oh yeah we NEVER received any certificates or belts, just the knowledge in his head. I do agree that TOO MANY styles focus more on belt rank rather than actual knowledge of the art, but that happens with all arts not just Filipino ones.

Sorry guys but this is not how it is done back home.....

Unfortunately Moromoro not all of us have the privilege of training where our arts were created. I would love the opportunity to train in the Phillipines, but I can't afford it, neither can a lot of other people.

also i have said in the past that i thought a certain poster was S**t it didnt represent the filipino flag correctly......

In the U.S and the west in general it seems that the FMA are sold.

Come on really now, what commercial instructor doesn't charge any money for lessons??? If you are financially set for life well than good for you, but some of us are not. If I was rich I would teach for free, but I'm not, and I have to put food on my table, and a roof over my head.

What i have seen in Martial talk is almost a complete disrespect for the FMA and its varied history and teachers, people on this forum bite at you when you say go to the philippines and practice there....

History you say, do your homework the only one disrespecting people around here is you and The Kuntawman. Go to the Phillipines you say, I say send me a ticket, and I'll go.

for all you Modern Arnis practitioners i can guarantee that the level of modern arnis in the philippines is a whole lot better than in the U.S. NOW WHATS YOUR OPINION ON THIS!!!!!

You are probably right about this, but once again, a lot of us don't have the opportunity to train over seas. That's like saying that American Judo isn't as good as Japanese Judo, can you prove it???? You would have to challenge and beat all the American guys, for that to be completely accurate.

now my chance to educate.....

firstly dont disrespect other FMA just because they dont bother to have front page ad's on blackbelt magazine or the like..... advertising doesnt mean it is better...

If I'm not mistaken you are the one that's disrespecting other FMA's and the instructors of FMA's.

Dont train for the rank (this is very evident in japanese ranking structure FMA- which i believe has no place in traditional FMA) train for the skill....

I completely agree with you on this subject.

If you can train with the source or his closest representative...
no point learning with an instructor given by another down the line instructor..

The key word here is "IF", well "IF" I could train with the best then I would, but once again I don't have the money to travel that far. So why not learn an art form if you can't learn from the best...how about to pass down your knowledge??? Should we all just stop teaching or learning if we can't be the best teacher out there. Get real.

also show some bloody respect for our culture, if you want to become an eskrimador one of the prerequesite would at least be to go to the philippines and do some training there (cross training)

Once again send me a ticket.

also the FMA are larger than techniques but most of you especially the westreners will never learn other aspects of it such as oracion , kulam and other spiritual aspects of it.......... dont start to cry why not firstly you dont know the language, you dont know the culture.....

I would personally love to learn the other aspects of the FMA's, are you offering to teach all of us Westerners????

:asian: KenpoDragon

 

[Guro Harold]

Originally posted by moromoro
Look at the your pathetic post the guy ask for help in a forum on what to teach his class.... now this is completely unacceptable in any martial arts (maybe not taeBo)

also i have said in the past that i thought a certain poster was S**t it didnt represent the filipino flag correctly......

MoroMoro,

The interesting thing is that both of those post were dealing with people who were sincerely and humbly seeking knowledge and not to offend.

I can see by your actions that you are neither sincere nor humble. You are an accusor and judgemental. Have you added anything positive to the discussions of the Filipino Martial Arts?

TheKuntawMan has strong opinions about things but at least he is striving to communicate.

You are not the savior of the PI way of life, you are only a personal representive of it. As such, I wonder does your teachers know how you are representing yourself and what light you are shining on them?

You are not a shining light of truth but a glaring example of what walking arrogance is.

Palusut

 

[Brian Johns]

I would have to agree with Palusut 100% with regard to moromoro. All of the posters on MT are quite respectful of FMA. Many of us Modern Arnis practitioners belong to different organizations. Yet, we treat each other with respect, even if we have differences of opinion with regard to the structure or vision of the art. That also extends outside of Modern Arnis. I have seen nothing but the utmost respect by us towards other practitioners of other martial arts. I have not seen that respect from moromoro.

As Palusut said, moromoro is a glaring example of what walking arrogance is.