I trained tkd in 1984 for about a year. I have a long history in combat sports. It is a long time ago, but the main thing I remember is that the club was in a elementary school gym 2 or 3 nights a week, there were a lot of tkd clubs using schools and rec centers in my city at that time. The price was cheap so I remember seeing a lot of kids whose family were poor getting a chance to train, and tkd gave those kids a lot of things in there lives that I won't list here. Now in the city I live in, all the TKD clubs rent there own studio, so I imagine it is more pricey. Good memories that I have forgotten until recently.
Question for old-schoolers
- Thread starter BrandonLucas
- Start date
I began in Taekwondo in 1983 when I was 14. Some of the differences I have noticed are these:
We did basics to build up our stopping power and develop good technique.
We did basic kicking, not to make points, but to be able to hurt or kill an opponent in a real situation if necessary. Would our side kick work against a 6'3" angry opponent if we had to use it?
Form was used for a whole host of things, winning tournaments not being one of them.
Free fighting was used to develop fluidity, speed, gracefulness, accuracy, and power. Sometimes we wanted to be soft, and sometimes we wanted to knock our opponents back 20 feet. We seldom used hogu or headgear.
Granted, instructors have always used Taekwondo as an excuse to make money. The biggest problem I have seen are students who train Taekwondo as a way to make it to the Olympics, which results in a whole different mindset.
Ask the ROK Marines about not using Taekwondo on the battlefield, and my instructor was captain of the Korean Army Taekwondo team.
We did basics to build up our stopping power and develop good technique.
We did basic kicking, not to make points, but to be able to hurt or kill an opponent in a real situation if necessary. Would our side kick work against a 6'3" angry opponent if we had to use it?
Form was used for a whole host of things, winning tournaments not being one of them.
Free fighting was used to develop fluidity, speed, gracefulness, accuracy, and power. Sometimes we wanted to be soft, and sometimes we wanted to knock our opponents back 20 feet. We seldom used hogu or headgear.
Granted, instructors have always used Taekwondo as an excuse to make money. The biggest problem I have seen are students who train Taekwondo as a way to make it to the Olympics, which results in a whole different mindset.
Ask the ROK Marines about not using Taekwondo on the battlefield, and my instructor was captain of the Korean Army Taekwondo team.
matt.m
Senior Master
Ok, the best way I can describe it is this. Discipline and fortitude. I remember when a colored belt wouldn't even think of calling a black belt by their 1st name.
The training was harder, the best way I could make an analogy of this is the following. Look at the "Old school" dungeon style of training that was done in Rocky by Stallone or the Tae Kwon Do National Team from "Best of the Best." and look at the nicer facilities, gyms, equipment, etc they were given.
The workouts were harder, I think more was expected. The McDojo, BB Factory mindset hadn't been put into place.
Even though I was in outstanding shape while on the USMC Judo team I would come home and cherish the blood, sweat, and tears of my father's dungeon of a training room. It is all about the workout. For the most part I haven't seen a school, with the exception of a few that compare to intensity to what I desire in a class.
The training was harder, the best way I could make an analogy of this is the following. Look at the "Old school" dungeon style of training that was done in Rocky by Stallone or the Tae Kwon Do National Team from "Best of the Best." and look at the nicer facilities, gyms, equipment, etc they were given.
The workouts were harder, I think more was expected. The McDojo, BB Factory mindset hadn't been put into place.
Even though I was in outstanding shape while on the USMC Judo team I would come home and cherish the blood, sweat, and tears of my father's dungeon of a training room. It is all about the workout. For the most part I haven't seen a school, with the exception of a few that compare to intensity to what I desire in a class.
Though I was into Martial Arts in the mid-80's I didnt formally start TKD til just after this period (91'), however I still consider where I started "old school", as my instructors started in the 70's.
I still employ much of what I did then.. now. I believe hard training develops good students, so when comparing then and now I compare with general TKD, rather than any one school.
Then toughness was simply part of the course, if you didnt have it you would gain it quickly or quit! For example, I recall in my early days when I was a yellow belt watching a fellow yellow belt sparring against a red belt.. there was no 'teaching type sparring', the red belt whacked the crap out of him, finally nailing him with a spinning back kick that took him 2 feet off the floor... and no one told the red belt that was out of order... as it wasnt back then.
I feel TKD's TKD is more friendly and respectful of the beginning students.. I teach my students to help them grow, not that they are cannon fodder, as personally I feel this is better.. back when I started, the blue belts hardly spoke to you and the red/black belts didnt at all!
That said, I think back then (in Ch'ang hon/ITF) a 5th degree was a rare sight.. now they are two a penny.. the high grades for the masses has made TKD loose that little something special
Life has also changed things a little, we use to do warm ups that involved a run to the park about 2 miles away, bare footed etc. People would watch in wonder as 30 students in white PJ's passed by.. now you get little twats making Bruce Lee noises.. oh well!
I think back then knowledge was less because less was questioned.. especially regarding patterns.. everyone 'just did'
As I said previously, sparring was tough, when you visited other clubs they would try to put you down (physically), even the instructors (I had this on numerous occassions).. now I hope people respect others in a more furfilling & productive way (though we always treated people respectfully at our club btw).
Also the arts rarely mixed.. kung-fu with kung fu, TKD with TKD etc. now everyone is much more open to training with others.
Thinking back, some things made me laugh, you use to get the odd tough guy join (a Kick Boxer or some other toughguy) who rated themselves.. they often went a bit OTT with juniors and now they would be pulled aside and told to calm down.. back then we as BB's) we simply told to teach them some humbleness.. for me that was speed and kicks very close to the head, for my training partner John it was more often simply knocking them about.
Another incident I remember was sparring against this 18 stone black tag, I had been a 1st dan a few months and I weighed 10.5 stone, I was pretty fast and flicked a controlled kick to his face which drew blood and he lost his temper (badly) and tried to beat the crap out of me.. lol.. I kept moving around thinking it will stop soon and wondering what to do, as to let him take me out looks bad and to KO him (my only option really considering his size) would look bad to my instructor.. I looked at my instructor during this to see what he'd say or to see if he call it to a halt or something and he just looked at me as if to say "well, lets see what your gonna do next".. in the end I took his leg out and then apologied for the previous kick that drew blood!
So, I would say the main difference between then and now is toughness.. it was tougher then for the average student than it is now.
Stuart
I still employ much of what I did then.. now. I believe hard training develops good students, so when comparing then and now I compare with general TKD, rather than any one school.
Then toughness was simply part of the course, if you didnt have it you would gain it quickly or quit! For example, I recall in my early days when I was a yellow belt watching a fellow yellow belt sparring against a red belt.. there was no 'teaching type sparring', the red belt whacked the crap out of him, finally nailing him with a spinning back kick that took him 2 feet off the floor... and no one told the red belt that was out of order... as it wasnt back then.
I feel TKD's TKD is more friendly and respectful of the beginning students.. I teach my students to help them grow, not that they are cannon fodder, as personally I feel this is better.. back when I started, the blue belts hardly spoke to you and the red/black belts didnt at all!
That said, I think back then (in Ch'ang hon/ITF) a 5th degree was a rare sight.. now they are two a penny.. the high grades for the masses has made TKD loose that little something special
Life has also changed things a little, we use to do warm ups that involved a run to the park about 2 miles away, bare footed etc. People would watch in wonder as 30 students in white PJ's passed by.. now you get little twats making Bruce Lee noises.. oh well!
I think back then knowledge was less because less was questioned.. especially regarding patterns.. everyone 'just did'
As I said previously, sparring was tough, when you visited other clubs they would try to put you down (physically), even the instructors (I had this on numerous occassions).. now I hope people respect others in a more furfilling & productive way (though we always treated people respectfully at our club btw).
Also the arts rarely mixed.. kung-fu with kung fu, TKD with TKD etc. now everyone is much more open to training with others.
Thinking back, some things made me laugh, you use to get the odd tough guy join (a Kick Boxer or some other toughguy) who rated themselves.. they often went a bit OTT with juniors and now they would be pulled aside and told to calm down.. back then we as BB's) we simply told to teach them some humbleness.. for me that was speed and kicks very close to the head, for my training partner John it was more often simply knocking them about.
Another incident I remember was sparring against this 18 stone black tag, I had been a 1st dan a few months and I weighed 10.5 stone, I was pretty fast and flicked a controlled kick to his face which drew blood and he lost his temper (badly) and tried to beat the crap out of me.. lol.. I kept moving around thinking it will stop soon and wondering what to do, as to let him take me out looks bad and to KO him (my only option really considering his size) would look bad to my instructor.. I looked at my instructor during this to see what he'd say or to see if he call it to a halt or something and he just looked at me as if to say "well, lets see what your gonna do next".. in the end I took his leg out and then apologied for the previous kick that drew blood!
So, I would say the main difference between then and now is toughness.. it was tougher then for the average student than it is now.
Stuart
matt.m
Senior Master
It was tougher then, not just for the average student but for everyone. Geez, a good instructor will know a students "Breaking Point" push it a tad and back off.
Tricks of the trade from the USMC, however, I have seen it heavily prevelant in the instructors who have been around and doing it for a long time.
Everyone has their limitations, it is the instructors job to know the individuals and go accordingly. Have the student feel a condition of accomplishment while they are sweat soaked for finishing the class, activity, test, doesn't matter.
Tricks of the trade from the USMC, however, I have seen it heavily prevelant in the instructors who have been around and doing it for a long time.
Everyone has their limitations, it is the instructors job to know the individuals and go accordingly. Have the student feel a condition of accomplishment while they are sweat soaked for finishing the class, activity, test, doesn't matter.
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