Question about "real" fights

[7starmantis]

On a message board I admin for my Kung Fu association, we started getting into the ground fighting discussion. I personally believe it is not wise to intentionally take a fight to the ground in a true self defense situation where you don't know if others will join in or you are on horrible terain. I am interested in hearing opinions on this though, as several of my kung fu brothers and sisters feel differently. I'm not saying you shouldn't learn and practice ground techniques in case you find yourself there, but why take a fight to the ground where there is a greater margin for error and injury to both of the fighters, in a real situation?



7sm

 

[SteelShadow]

In my oppion i agree with you.altho grappling is good to learn in case you do end up on the ground i wouldnt intentionaly take a fight to the ground unless I had to.Because you never know when someone else will get involved.And the best of grapplers would have a hard time defending against another attacker while they were tied up with one on the ground.Its good to learn grappling but in a situation where there is more than one attacker it can also be a major disadvantage to be on the ground.

 

[TkdWarrior]

bad case scenario: u r on ground
worse case scenario: u started grappling
worst case scenario : u don't know crap about it

it's better to prepare for all 3 scenario's...
if u r on street u shouldnt go to ground...i dunno where i read but even gracies talked about avoiding ground in street...
to me there r some things which should be taken in consideration.
1. Street r damn tough, u'll even get hurt even while doing break falls chances r that u dont get hurt while on ground is Minimum.
2. ur oppnt can hav weapon
3. ur oppnt hav freind/help waiting/or coming
4. street fight should not last more than couple of seconds(forget honour crap n fight downrite dirty) if it is then most probably u hav screwed up something...
5. all fair in luv n war ...
6. make sure u remember all above five...

-TkdWarrior-

 

[SMAC]

If you know somebody who is a good grappler, have a grapple with them. They should whoop you under their rules. Now learn, the basic positions(guard,mount,side-mount etc) and some basic defences/attacks from them.
Many of the same principles apply on the ground. One of the reasons why the grapplers have an advantage in UFC is there are no groin strikes, gauging,biting etc. However in a street fight these are your friends, not arm-bars or leg locks whilst your opponents mate is kicking your head in.
The value of basic ground work for the striker is orientation. Then you can defend, counter and get back to your feet if possible.

 

[7starmantis]

I agree you should know how to at the very least disable and get back up from a ground fight, but to force a fight to go to the ground is basically insuring your injury, in my mind.

7sm

 

[Zujitsuka]

Originally posted by 7starmantis
"I agree you should know how to at the very least disable and get back up from a ground fight...."

-7sm

I agree with you on this 7sm. If I'm taken down, my goal is to get back to my feet so I can finish my opponent off and/or escape.

Peace & blessings,

 

[Mickey]

I once had to fight 4 guys. IT was hard to stay up and when they tackled me to the ground I got kicked and hit more often then when I was standing.

Mick

 

[bob919]

even when you are alot stronger if you go to ground when there is more than 1 attacker because its almost impossible to keep more than one opponent on the ground therefore atlesat 1 opponent will be standing. while standing a person can do alot of damage to someone on the ground(even one kick from an untrained individual can break ribs) not to mention dropping their whole body weight on you Via a knee or an elbow.

even going to ground with one opponet is not a good idea unless you are a very accomlished grappler

i wouldn't even though i am almost 250lbs

 

[Nyoongar]

Gappling isn't all on the ground.

If you can throw them to the ground then you can kick them in the head!

But I definitely wouldn't go flopping to guard on the street, that's madness.

 

[Mon Mon]

 

[sammy3170]

Originally posted by 7starmantis
On a message board I admin for my Kung Fu association, we started getting into the ground fighting discussion. I personally believe it is not wise to intentionally take a fight to the ground in a true self defense situation where you don't know if others will join in or you are on horrible terain. I am interested in hearing opinions on this though, as several of my kung fu brothers and sisters feel differently. I'm not saying you shouldn't learn and practice ground techniques in case you find yourself there, but why take a fight to the ground where there is a greater margin for error and injury to both of the fighters, in a real situation?



7sm

Man I unintentionally went to the ground when I was set on by five guys and that was it. I was rendered unconscious and a bloody mess. Not a wise place to try and stay during a fight. It would be interesting to see if the Gracies would take a fight to the ground in a carpark or bar.

Cheers
Sammy

 

[KennethKu]

If you are a truly effective striker then you do not need to grapple. Grapplers know that most strikers cannot KO people with one strike, so they will just eat the few strikes and come in for you. So condition you fists and elbows and kicks !

 

[H@pkid0ist]

Going to the ground may be fine if the situation is one on one, and there is no chance of others getting involved. Also, if there is nothing on the ground or the possibility of anything falling to the ground that can cause you harm,ie rocks, glass. I hanve seen many ground fights, and those that stay on the ground for any length of time, someone usually ends up getting kicked pretty bad. We teach in the way of ground fighting how to hurt the opponent and get up as quick as possible, dealing with ground techniques and countering them to regain control quickly.

 

[ace]

Travel With Friends Ever???????
------------------------------------------
I hear alot of people say they
are afraid to go to the ground
because of others joining in???

__________________________________

Are U saying if U took the fight to the ground
And the oponent's friends jumped in
Your friends would let Uuuuuuu take a but kicken????

i trust my friends would not.
----------------------------------------

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by ace
Travel With Friends Ever???????
------------------------------------------
I hear alot of people say they
are afraid to go to the ground
because of others joining in???

__________________________________

Are U saying if U took the fight to the ground
And the oponent's friends jumped in
Your friends would let Uuuuuuu take a but kicken????

i trust my friends would not.
----------------------------------------

Well now we are getting into gang situation. I'm not talking about that, most true self defense situations are when you are alone, or seem to be alone at least. I don't "trust" anyone to protect me, thats why I know how to protect myself. What if your "friends" were no match for the other guys friends? Thne you and your "crew" get their buts whipped.
What I'm saying is in a situation where you are defending your life, it would not be smart, even in a one on one situation to take the fight to the ground because of the large margin for injury. I'm not attacking your precious grappling, I'm just saying its not a wise move ina a situation where you are defending your life.

7sm

 

[ace]

& if your friends are geting there buts kicked so would U.
____________________________________________________--

Grappling has it's place & like it or not most
Fights do end up in the clinch.
___________________________------------

By the way did u Ever star Your School??????
____________________________-------------------

Also please don't mis con screw my words
Thank U:asian:

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by ace
& if your friends are geting there buts kicked so would U.
____________________________________________________--

Grappling has it's place & like it or not most
Fights do end up in the clinch.
___________________________------------

By the way did u Ever star Your School??????
____________________________-------------------

Also please don't mis con screw my words
Thank U:asian:

1. I didn't say you said anything about a gang, I made the determination that it was a gang. What else do you call a group of people fighting another group of people?

& if your friends are geting there buts kicked so would U.

How is that a true statement? I am only able to achieve the level of my friends? What I originally said was that I'm not even talking about this type of situation.

Grappling has it's place & like it or not most Fights do end up in the clinch.

Lets go back to my last post, I didn't say grappling didn't have its place, I believe it does. Thats the reason I study Chin Na so intensly. I don't know what you mean by the fight ending up in the clinch, I can only assume you mean on the ground in a submission type situation. That is entirely wrong. You can say YOUR fights end up there, but to say most fights do is unrealistic. In the true self defense situations I have been in, my goal was to end the confrontation as quickly as possible, including crippling or killing. See, I'm not talking about a grudge match, or fighting your buddy, I'm talking about a situation where you are fighting for your life. My goal is to end the situation in as few moves as possible. That lowers the margin for injury to myself.

By the way did u Ever star Your School??????

No, I'm not starting my own school for quite sometime, I was just asking some opinions for when I do decide to branch on my own. Thanks for asking though.

Also please don't mis con screw my words

um, I don't believe I have "mis con screwed" your words at all. I simply responded to your post. If I have "mis con screwed" your words I am terribly sorry.

7sm

 

[ace]

A clinch is When 2 people fighting end up in a hug
it is very comon in Boxing & kick boxing
When one fighter hits the other
he grabs them & stops the hiting
untill the ref re-starts them.

_________________________--------------

And Good Luck with The Scool When
U do start it

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by ace
A clinch is When 2 people fighting end up in a hug
it is very comon in Boxing & kick boxing
When one fighter hits the other
he grabs them & stops the hiting
untill the ref re-starts them.

You really believe that most self defense situations end up in that type of situation? That would be to ths disadvantage of both parties in a self defense situation. See, there is no ref in a self defense situation.

7sm

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by ace
And Good Luck with The Scool When
U do start it

Thank you very much. :asian: