DF: Can BJJ work in a real fight??????

[Hanzou]

Firstly, BJJ is not the only art that trains chokes. Secondly, legislation around the world now puts you at risk of prosecution if you use a choke, regardless of the outcome of the persecution.

I didn't say that Bjj was the only art that trained chokes.

And any one of my yellow belts also has the knowledge to choke someone out and break joints. Is that meant to prove something?

Its a pity that people in your school don't compete. A yellow belt in your style being able to choke and break limbs on the level of an advanced Bjj practitioner would make a fortune in the fight circuit once they reach black belt level.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

And it's all black and white? There is no striking in aikido and there's no grappling in karate? Response to an attack has to be appropriate or you are going to get yourself into trouble. Choking may seem humane but choke a drunk who subsequently dies from asphyxiation and you will at very least be facing a manslaughter charge.

A bouncer in Australia is no longer allowed to use chokes as a form of restraint for that reason.

Do you have to choke your opponent all the way out? You don't have to. Sometime if you can just choke your opponent half way. After you let him go, he will lose his desire to fight. To me, it's a much better solution than to meet your fist on your opponent's face.

To me, the choking is like to hit your opponent with the handler of your dagger. You give him a warning that you can stab him if you want to. It's up to him whether he wants to back up or continue. The moment that you have broken your opponent's nose, there is no turning back.

 

[Steve]

Again I don't think anyone said BJJ cant work. Remember I said all arts will work. I can find clips of TKD guys or Karate guys or guys with CConceal Carry permits doing the same as you posted.

I'm strictly responding to this, ballen: "Yeah that's the same video that's always posted."

I'm not too worried about where on the scale of being a badass BJJ falls, but if the allegation is that people are not being put to sleep, clearly that is not true. If the allegation is that people cannot be controlled, clearly, also not true. And it's pretty easy to find footage of people successfully defending themselves without ever throwing a punch, so clearly the answer to the question, "Does BJJ work in a fight?" is yes.

 

[ballen0351]

I'm strictly responding to this, balLen COLOR=#333333]Yeah that's the same video that's always posted."

That's just the same clip I always see shown when talking about BJJ in real life defense. I know there are others but I've been shown that clip at least 20 times its the GO TO clip

I'm not too worried about where on the scale of being a badass BJJ falls, but if the allegation is that people are not being put to sleep, clearly that is not true. If the allegation is that people cannot be controlled, clearly, also not true. And it's pretty easy to find footage of people successfully defending themselves without ever throwing a punch, so clearly the answer to the question, "Does BJJ work in a fight?" is yes.


[/COLOR]

Which was never in question in my opinion.

 

[ballen0351]

Do you have to choke your opponent all the way out? You don't have to. Sometime if you can just choke your opponent half way. After you let him go, he will lose his desire to fight. To me, it's a much better solution than to meet your fist on your opponent's face.

To me, the choking is like to hit your opponent with the handler of your dagger. You give him a warning that you can stab him if you want to. It's up to him whether he wants to back up or continue. The moment that you have broken your opponent's nose, there is no turning back.

So your able to control your choke but I can't control my strike? Give a love tap show him I'm not playing?

 

[K-man]

Do you have to choke your opponent all the way out? You don't have to. Sometime if you can just choke your opponent half way. After you let him go, he will lose his desire to fight. To me, it's a much better solution than to meet your fist on your opponent's face.

No you don't, but here the very act of applying a choke hold can see you charged. At this stage I won't mention the charge because it is heresay but choke holds are no longer considered an option in that industry.

To me, the choking is like to hit your opponent with the handler of your dagger. You give him a warning that you can stab him if you want to. It's up to him whether he wants to back up or continue. The moment that you have broken your opponent's nose, there is no turning back.

This is a silly comparison. Most martial artists should have the skills to restrain someone without hitting them. Even if I did hit someone it is extremely unlikely I would break their nose as that would not be my target. A broken nose from me would be most likely from a knee to the head in a very nasty altercation.

I think you fail to understand that many MAs, along with BJJ, include a lot of grappling in the training. I'm the first to admit that what I do is nowhere near as comprehensive as BJJ on the ground, but I would be unfazed if I ended up on the ground. I classify boxing as a striking art and wrestling as a grappling art. Everything else is somewhere in between.

 

[K-man]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LZA-pB-7a9I&desktop_uri=/watch?v=LZA-pB-7a9Ip

Be sure to open and read the first comment.
:asian:

 

[Steve]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LZA-pB-7a9I&desktop_uri=/watch?v=LZA-pB-7a9Ip

Be sure to open and read the first comment.
:asian:

I don't know the whole story on what happened in that video, K-man, but here's what it looked like to me. A guy gets behind a person and locks up a choke hold so that the other guy can keep punching him. And once the guy is unconscious, he is literally thrown to the grown like a sack of potatoes.

I don't know the law where that happened, but I have to say, there were some things going on in this video that lead me to believe that there's more to the story than the two sentences posted under the video.

You can look at the video you posted and this video I posted earlier. I see a CLEAR difference between the two:

 

[Hanzou]

I think you fail to understand that many MAs, along with BJJ, include a lot of grappling in the training. I'm the first to admit that what I do is nowhere near as comprehensive as BJJ on the ground, but I would be unfazed if I ended up on the ground. I classify boxing as a striking art and wrestling as a grappling art. Everything else is somewhere in between.

The issue though is that unless you're training 12 hours a day, everyday, there's no way you can become proficient in grappling, chokes, punches, and kicks. I also know that a lot of arts use kata for a huge chunk of training time, making it even more difficult for the average student to master every aspect of fighting. The only people who are logically able to do it are professional MMA fighters. A guy practicing for a few hours a week in a dojo might get exposed to some holds and chokes, but its highly doubtful they'll become proficient in them. Definitely not at the level of exponents who specialize in that form of fighting (Bjj/Judo/Sambo/etc.) On the flip side, I'm probably not as good with my punches and kicks as a karateka or kickboxer.

 

[ballen0351]

The issue though is that unless you're training 12 hours a day, everyday, there's no way you can become proficient in grappling, chokes, punches, and kicks. I also know that a lot of arts use kata for a huge chunk of training time, making it even more difficult for the average student to master every aspect of fighting. The only people who are logically able to do it are professional MMA fighters. A guy practicing for a few hours a week in a dojo might get exposed to some holds and chokes, but its highly doubtful they'll become proficient in them. Definitely not at the level of exponents who specialize in that form of fighting (Bjj/Judo/Sambo/etc.)

Says the guy that knows nothing about Kata or its purpose.

 

[ballen0351]

I don't know the whole story on what happened in that video, K-man, but here's what it looked like to me. A guy gets behind a person and locks up a choke hold so that the other guy can keep punching him. And once the guy is unconscious, he is literally thrown to the grown like a sack of potatoes.

I don't know the law where that happened, but I have to say, there were some things going on in this video that lead me to believe that there's more to the story than the two sentences posted under the video.

You can look at the video you posted and this video I posted earlier. I see a CLEAR difference between the two:

I think the point he is making is chocking someone to the point of loosing consciousness puts you at a much greater risk for a court case criminal and civil. There are much better options in the BJJ tool box then slapping on a choke and putting someone to sleep.

 

[Hanzou]

Says the guy that knows nothing about Kata or its purpose.

In my old karate dojo it was used to pad training time, break up stance, kicking, and punching drills, and to make the belt examinations longer than they needed to be. I'm sure in superior Karate schools it has a much more benign purpose, but most dojos aren't like that unfortunately.

 

[ballen0351]

In my old karate dojo it was used to pad training time, break up stance, kicking, and punching drills, and to make the belt examinations longer than they needed to be. I'm sure in superior Karate schools it has a much more benign purpose, but most dojos aren't like that unfortunately.

Like I said you know nothing of Kata.


How many hours a week do you train in BJJ?

 

[MJS]

The issue though is that unless you're training 12 hours a day, everyday, there's no way you can become proficient in grappling, chokes, punches, and kicks. I also know that a lot of arts use kata for a huge chunk of training time, making it even more difficult for the average student to master every aspect of fighting. The only people who are logically able to do it are professional MMA fighters. A guy practicing for a few hours a week in a dojo might get exposed to some holds and chokes, but its highly doubtful they'll become proficient in them. Definitely not at the level of exponents who specialize in that form of fighting (Bjj/Judo/Sambo/etc.) On the flip side, I'm probably not as good with my punches and kicks as a karateka or kickboxer.

Well, that's pretty much a no brainer, don't you think? I'm talking about the training time. Unless ones job is to fight professionally, then odds are, you, me, and pretty much everyone else here, falls into the non fighter category. OTOH, that's why I'm not in any rush for anything. I hit to the dojo 2-3 times a week, and depending on the day, the classes are 1hr or 1 1/2. However, while I don't train for 12hrs a day, I do feel confident in my skills.

As for kata...that's not something that we focus on a lot at my dojo. The majority of the time, we're working the basics, ie: blocks, punches, kicks, doing bag work or sparring.

 

[MJS]

"Does BJJ work in a fight?" is yes.

Agreed. That being said, one would have to ask why this topic is 8 pages already? LOL!

 

[Steve]

Agreed. That being said, one would have to ask why this topic is 8 pages already? LOL!

I wouldn't even be involved if people would stop talking out of their behinds.

 

[K-man]

I don't know the whole story on what happened in that video, K-man, but here's what it looked like to me. A guy gets behind a person and locks up a choke hold so that the other guy can keep punching him. And once the guy is unconscious, he is literally thrown to the grown like a sack of potatoes.

According to the post the guy choked out had been hitting the guys friend.

I don't know the law where that happened, but I have to say, there were some things going on in this video that lead me to believe that there's more to the story than the two sentences posted under the video.

You can look at the video you posted and this video I posted earlier. I see a CLEAR difference between the two:
Seems to me the difference was is one jurisdiction the choke was deemed legal and the other led to an attempted murder charge and jail.

The issue though is that unless you're training 12 hours a day, everyday, there's no way you can become proficient in grappling, chokes, punches, and kicks. I also know that a lot of arts use kata for a huge chunk of training time, making it even more difficult for the average student to master every aspect of fighting. The only people who are logically able to do it are professional MMA fighters. A guy practicing for a few hours a week in a dojo might get exposed to some holds and chokes, but its highly doubtful they'll become proficient in them. Definitely not at the level of exponents who specialize in that form of fighting (Bjj/Judo/Sambo/etc.) On the flip side, I'm probably not as good with my punches and kicks as a karateka or kickboxer.

I reckon I'm reasonably proficient at those skills and I only train about 10 hours a week. Most of my training is kata, or at least kata bunkai. Go figure! Again you are demonstrating your ignorance when it comes to other martial arts and, as Ballen says, your understanding of kata and its place in fighting. As to comparing the average martial artist with a professional fighter ... yeah, right!

In my old karate dojo it was used to pad training time, break up stance, kicking, and punching drills, and to make the belt examinations longer than they needed to be. I'm sure in superior Karate schools it has a much more benign purpose, but most dojos aren't like that unfortunately.

Your opinion which is not only biased but totally inaccurate, even for the worst of karate schools. To suggest that kata is to make gradings longer than need be is actually offensive. The equivalent would be me saying that all BJJ on the ground was totally useless and a waste of time. It is so stupid that I can't believe you would even state it.
:idunno:

 

[seasoned]

Agreed. That being said, one would have to ask why this topic is 8 pages already? LOL!

I wouldn't even be involved if people would stop talking out of their behinds.

The main reason the thread is 8 pages long and people won't stop talking out of their butt is because it appears that they lack the main ingredient of flexibility that is required in any martial arts................

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Seems to me the difference was is one jurisdiction the choke was deemed legal and the other led to an attempted murder charge and jail.

One day I was walking on the street. A guy tried to force a girl to get into his car. The girl was screaming and fought very hard not to get in the car. At that moment, all the people on the street were watching. Not even one person was willing to offer any help to that girl. I walked across the street. Got that guy into a head lock (neck choke from behind). The guy let go the girl. The girl ran away. The guy was screaming, "Please don't kill me. Please don't kill me, ..." I let go my head lock. The guy took off to the opposite direction from that girl (this was important, otherwise all I did was in vain). The problem was solved. Nobody got hurt. It was a happy ending.

Even if that guy might sue me in the court later on, since I had so many witness, I don't think I would be charged anything. How could I be able to force that guy to let go that girl? I truly didn't have any better way other than my most familiar "head lock" that I have invested so much training time into it.

I assume I could talk to that guy first. But what if he had a gun in his pocket? All I wanted was just to "scare him a little" so he would let that girl free.

 

[K-man]

One day I was walking on the street. A guy tried to force a girl to get into his car. The girl was screaming and fought very hard not to get in the car. At that moment, all the people on the street were watching. Not even one person was willing to offer any help to that girl. I walked across the street. Got that guy into a head lock (neck choke from behind). The guy let go the girl. The girl ran away. The guy was screaming, "Please don't kill me. Please don't kill me, ..." I let go my head lock. The guy took off to the opposite direction from that girl (this was important, otherwise all I did was in vain). The problem was solved. Nobody got hurt. It was a happy ending.

Even if that guy might sue me in the court later on, since I had so many witness, I don't think I would be charged anything. How could I be able to force that guy to let go that girl? I truly didn't have any better way other than my most familiar "head lock" that I have invested so much training time into it.

I assume I could talk to that guy first. But what if he had a gun in his pocket? All I wanted was just to "scare him a little" so he would let that girl free.

Well done. I don't have any issue with that at all. As we are all saying, grappling is very effective in SD.
Oh! And, I'm all for a happy ending!