Question about adrenaline rushes

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by GouRonin

Unless you have a radically different body structure than every other person on the planet then no, not you won't experience a different feeling. The human body does not secrete exact chemicals that affect everyone differently. What is different is the action taken in response to the danger based on experience.

Actually your very wrong on the secreation of adrenalines from the body. Thye do effect people differently in accordance with chemical body make up, genetics, even diet can effect it because of the different metals and vitamins in the body, all these effect the way the body handles the addrenalines and the "feeling" you get. We don't have to agree but trust me, from a medical standpoint your wrong in that assumption.

Originally posted by GouRonin

Their body has NOT been conditioned otherwise. Their mind has. Their body will react to the adrenaline the same way everytime until their body becomes accustomed to the surge. There are ways to control and reach this point such as desensitizing or dehumanizing the situation. Making it abstract. Breath or mind control are vehicle to these ends.

Your trying to seperate the body and the mind. What addrenaline you secreat is directly related to what your eyes see, your ears hear, your nose smells, all put together. Because the mind sends signals to your body to do a certain thing like raise a knee, or duck, before it sends sends the comprehendable signals, doesn't mean it isn't all started in the mind.

Originally posted by GouRonin

Recognition is important as it triggers the adrenaline dump and resulting effects. But other than that you're wrong. Street fighters will deal far better with it just because they are street fighters. They have the surge and dump on a regular basis and have learned to manage it through whatever natural resource the use. Knowing what a knee break will do to someone doesn't mean anything if you never experience and re-experience the adrenaline dump to crash phenomona.

I guess I can agree with you on that, but I wouldn't say the average person who flies off the handle at getting flipped off is an experienced street fighter. Plus, I have never had my knee crushed, I have never really crushed anyones knee, but I have set many a broken bone in the ER and I can tell you, knowing the results of that injury do make a difference in what you expect.

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by theneuhauser

seriously, just smile.


nullifies "dumps" in the endocrine system, and your pants, too.

LMAO, I guess your right, it even works in debates too!!!

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Actually your very wrong on the secreation of adrenalines from the body. Thye do effect people differently in accordance with chemical body make up, genetics, even diet can effect it because of the different metals and vitamins in the body, all these effect the way the body handles the addrenalines and the "feeling" you get. We don't have to agree but trust me, from a medical standpoint your wrong in that assumption.

I never trust anyone that says, "trust me."

With small variations the chemicals affecting the body and their results are not that different. An example might be muscle poisons and fatigue poisons such as lactic acid, that the body produces to stop the body from overworking itself will always be an end product of the Adrenaline Dump. (AD) An example might be that a certain abundance of a vitamin might produce a delay in the lactic acid production but it is still there. Yes there is variance but it still occurs nd for the same reason. So from a medical standpoint I'm not wrong, you are viewing the issue from far too narrow a standpoint.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Your trying to seperate the body and the mind. What addrenaline you secreat is directly related to what your eyes see, your ears hear, your nose smells, all put together. Because the mind sends signals to your body to do a certain thing like raise a knee, or duck, before it sends sends the comprehendable signals, doesn't mean it isn't all started in the mind.

The issue at hand was that it is a chemically altered state. I don't debate that it isn't started in the mind. What I debate is the effects of the body during the event and the mind's ability to control it. There are certain events the body does that the conscious mind has no control over. I will admit that it is not impossible but the physical effects are like a river. While it may flow at different speeds and depths, it is still the same river.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
I guess I can agree with you on that, but I wouldn't say the average person who flies off the handle at getting flipped off is an experienced street fighter.

I never said that. I have no clue where that came from.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Plus, I have never had my knee crushed, I have never really crushed anyones knee, but I have set many a broken bone in the ER and I can tell you, knowing the results of that injury do make a difference in what you expect.

I've done CPR and saved people's lives a few times in my line of work. It doesn't make me a heart surgeon. You need the first hand direct exposure, not second hand.

 

[theneuhauser]

3 words- Adrenal Gland Disorders


there are extreme variations in how we react to adrenalin and all of the other hormones that are mixin around in the human washing machine. disorders are just diagnoses of the extremes that occur in every human being.
here's one example of genetic causes for adrenal imbalance.
if you like this article (kind of sci. journally) then you can find a ton of other examples on this same site adrenalin disorder

i hope that that helps with the current discussion, here.
you are correct, G-ronin about the rivers flowing at different speeds and depths, but theyre really not the same river. from what ive learned it seems that people are alot more alike on the surface than they are in inner space (at least physiologically).

 

[GouRonin]

1 in 5 million people will spontaneously burst into flame and experience self-immoliation.

We'd better start lumping them in too and worrying about how to defend against people who run at us after having burst into flame.



You guys are %$#@ing un believeable.
:bird: :disgust:

 

[theneuhauser]

were you responding to my post g?


i hope not. i was just raising a point. the point was that on the extreme end of the spectrum, there are disorders, and disorders are extreme case of natural imbalances. imbalances that many people experience to a degree. not 1 in a million, but everyone at sometime or another has these imbalances. lots of people get hopped on controlled subs and experience temporary extreme imbalances.
Now the topic of this thread was adrenaline rushes in excitement situations. i was outlining one reason that, in fact, adrenaline rushes are different for everyone. that's why we have "fight" or "flight" these are two diametrically opposing responses to the same stimulus. What that tells me is that there is a whole lot of difference between individuals in these scenarios. The responses are not just slightly different, but radically different.


now that flip-off icon is cute, but what's the point? this is cyberspace, try to keep it nice and sweet.

 

[GouRonin]

If you want to belive that body functions for flight and/or flight are opposed go ahead. They're not. I am not talking about responses. Something neither of you seem to be grasping. So the point is moot.

If you want nice and sweet go to Candyland, where gumdrops fall like rain.

 

[J-kid]

The Adrenaline dump is one of the crazyest things ive had to deal with in my fighting experience,

I believe one of the first time i realized i had a Adrenaline Dump was when i was sparring with boxing gloves and going pritty hard with someone who is twice my size and been in the martial art game longer then me. He is a great fighter and i like to fight so i said. ( lets spar ) of course he accepts . We put on the gloves and start to throw some jabs and a few punchs . Any how about 75 seconds into this he starts going harder since i got some fast jabs in on him. Well he threw a upper cut up and i went down and BOOM . I might as well used my face as a door mat for that punch the force threw me back and i am 170 and in shape and 5 11 . Not to mention got a good reach and not bad looking for all the ladies =) . back to the storie his punch sent me off my feet and right on my back i rolled to the side my eyes where tearing i was feeling pritty beaten down. I was sorta shaken i thought that my Nose might have been broken . Lucky it wasnst. So some of the other people at my gym who are real UFC fighters at my Judo / Jujutsu / Boxing / Wrestling / AJW Gym started laughing got up and i called it game for a round or two and let the biger guys fight. later i got back in and i felt diffrent not like befor with this new found strength but with this fear that i would be hit and my body let me know that it was scared i felt Adrenaline pumping like crazy . I wasnt sure why but every time they went into a frenzy of punchs I would turn cover up and it was like my body said !!!!HIDE!!! . At this point i wasnt sure what to do. I thought and thought about it. Thinking day in day out. Went to a back yard boxing match and for some reason i was winning then i turned because i got hit and it made no sense , I turned back around and gave the guy a hook and won after getting punched in my back.

About 3 weeks later i went over to my friends house who did TKD and his dad did boxing a wal back well being who i am a big ufc fan. I started talking about how MMA could kick any TKD guys ***, So his dad was like you box. I say yeah but i justed started . Then he challenged me to boxing in his front yard, So we got the gloves on and started i got a few punchs in and then he went into a frenzy and was hitting me . I counterd with a punch then the Adrenaline dump kicked in i spun around and coverd up again i couldnt believe it . Usally when i spar i go for ground and pound being 70% grappler and 40% striker making me 110% of a fighter (Hehe) . So i finally after a long time i started doing more and more backyard full contact fights with people that think that they are the badist mofus around and I started losing all the Adrenaline dump affects . I am sure it might still be happening but it didnt effect me . Now its my oppents who are hiding from me . I no longer feel tired and hard at breath or the fear and turning my back . I am stronger and now more trained then ever , Yes it took me time but i tryed and tryed and my body just got used to it. Like anything else i survived it.
I dont know if this story helps you at all . But there is a lession to be learned hard work and determination are what is needed to over come the Aedrenaline Dump Like i did. I hope this inspires you to train harder so you will be able to handle this Gift this Curse i call THE ADRENALINE DUMP.


The END

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by GouRonin

If you want to belive that body functions for flight and/or flight are opposed go ahead. They're not. I am not talking about responses. Something neither of you seem to be grasping. So the point is moot.

If you want nice and sweet go to Candyland, where gumdrops fall like rain.

I think they are only opposed in certain people. What would cause a "fight" in one, would cause a "flight" in another. Now that said, the chemical makeup up the MAist may make him prone to the "flight" instead of the "fight". This would have to be worked out in order to overcome it. However, I think many variables affect weather a person even conciously has the "fight" or "flight" response. A friend of mine since highschool has competed in motorcross since he was old enough to walk almost. His reactions are completely different than mine in situations where his training makes him comfortable. He wouldn't flinch at something I may duck at. See my point? Conditioning is a big variable to the adrenaline dump. Your mind has to percieve the extreme danger, if your mind is conditioned to that stimulus as being normal, the dump will not even happen alot of times.

7sm

 

[Carbon]

Judo-Kid all I have to say to that is, you are on the biggest ego trip I've ever seen.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Carbon

Judo-Kid all I have to say to that is, you are on the biggest ego trip I've ever seen.

Then you haven't looked in the mirror enough.

 

[Bod]

Judo kid admitted his defeats and fears. Yeah he gets a bit daft every now and then, but he is getting less preachy, and his spelling has improved no end. I can't say the same for you Carbon.

Back to the subject.

Cus Damatio said 'Turn fear into fire'. He meant breath deep, and use the adrenaline dump to help you. Great advice.

The Chinese Martial Arts suggest pulling your ring-piece up when you are practising. Something about holding your chi in. However, I find that pulling your anal sphincter up also counters the adrenaline dump no end.

Try envisioning being scared. Then breath deeply and pull up the old starfish. With a bit of practice you might actually do it when you need to.

 

[7starmantis]

Man I read that post and its like reading greek to me!! I don't know what in the heck you said, but it sure was funny!!:rofl:

 

[Damian Mavis]

"Then you haven't looked in the mirror enough."

Heh, it's true but I must admit that Carbon is no where near as bad as he used to be. I personlly think Carbon has changed at least a bit for the better since he first started posting. And this coming from someone that has had the biggest run ins with him, even had threads locked over it.

But it was still funny to hear that coming from Carbon.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Damian Mavis]

"I find that pulling your anal sphincter up also counters the adrenaline dump no end"

Ya, it's the master technique of dump countering....

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Carbon]

Ya I may of had a big ego about what I knew about maritial arts.

I am still not saying that I can whoop anyone of yall, which I can't, or even stay in the ring which I probably can't either.

I guess I was just on a ......lets say hmmm testosteroine dump

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Now that said, the chemical makeup up the MAist may make him prone to the "flight" instead of the "fight". See my point?

Yes. You're wrong. That's the point. The chemical make up of someone because they do MA will make them fight? No. I will say this as if I was talking to a 4 year old because I feel like I am. (Ok, I'm not but I want to make this clear. Again it's an issue of using the right words.)

The rush is the same. What you do with it isn't.

I was watching court TV the other day. A woman who had done martial arts for 20 years was raped. She testified to it and then said she was too afraid to fight back when she was being raped. Why? Not because she didn't have the conditioning but because she wasn't exposed to the fear of the actual moment.

I also spoke with a friend of mine who related the story of the man who had no training whatsoever and was a street thing who took a shotgun blast to the chest that destroyed his heart and yet he still managed to run 50 yards from the cops.

It's hard to tell what people will do when exposed to it. It happens though and with training with the exposure then it can be managed.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Conditioning is a big variable to the adrenaline dump. Your mind has to percieve the extreme danger, if your mind is conditioned to that stimulus as being normal, the dump will not even happen alot of times.

Holy Jesus...we're about to almost agree. Conditioning is a part of dealing with the dump.

Then we fell apart again. The dump will ALWAYS happen. It's just that it has become managed so well that the person almost doesn't know it's happening.

 

[J-kid]

Ever heard of the saying.


TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE

 

[Damian Mavis]

Well at least you've got a sense of humor about it.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by GouRonin

Yes. You're wrong. That's the point. The chemical make up of someone because they do MA will make them fight? No. I will say this as if I was talking to a 4 year old because I feel like I am. (Ok, I'm not but I want to make this clear. Again it's an issue of using the right words.)

I was watching court TV the other day. A woman who had done martial arts for 20 years was raped. She testified to it and then said she was too afraid to fight back when she was being raped. Why? Not because she didn't have the conditioning but because she wasn't exposed to the fear of the actual moment.

I also spoke with a friend of mine who related the story of the man who had no training whatsoever and was a street thing who took a shotgun blast to the chest that destroyed his heart and yet he still managed to run 50 yards from the cops.

It's hard to tell what people will do when exposed to it. It happens though and with training with the exposure then it can be managed.



Holy Jesus...we're about to almost agree. Conditioning is a part of dealing with the dump.

Then we fell apart again. The dump will ALWAYS happen. It's just that it has become managed so well that the person almost doesn't know it's happening.

The rush is the same. What you do with it isn't.[/B][/QUOTE]
You know many four year old Laberatory Medical Technicians that have studied this very issue for a couple years? You can degraid me because you can't prove your opinion, or you can accept that adults(thats what we all are, right?) can have differing opinions and thats ok. The world still spins. I never said someone who does martial arts is going to have a different chemical makeup, actually read my post this time, I said a MAist could happen to have the chemical makeup that would make them more prone to the "flight" like your own example of the 20 year MAist who was raped. Then again, a non MAist could have the "fight" proness like ,again your own example, the guy who got shot in the chest. Your examples supported my statements, I think we agree, you just can't grasp the fact that you might agree with me.
Lets not turn this into a personal battle friend, lets keep it nice and polite please.


7sm