Qi Explained

[Same Trick]

The earliest periodic table is said to have listed aether but was soon removed because there was no relevance for it anymore, science had advanced.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

The earliest periodic table is said to have listed aether but was soon removed because there was no relevance for it anymore, science had advanced.

Which is in many ways a suitable analogy- A flawed concept that nevertheless concealed a much more complex truth

 

[windwalker099]

The Mystery of Chi

In this episode, Bill Moyers travels to China to learn about healing and the mind from another culture. “What I discovered in China was another way of thinking about mind and body, about health and illness and a phenomenon called chi,” Bill Moyers tells the audience in his introduction.

Before the "the power of chi" by Adam Minzer...

Both videos are interesting. In themselves, they neither disprove nor prove anything definitively.

The thinking in the East has been different for quite a while, though it is slowly changing. For some things, there is a trend of adopting the Western mindset in an attempt to validate their practices using what is called the scientific method, which was notably developed by Western culture.


outlined in a book

THE TAO OF PHYSICS

Since motion and change are essential properties of things, the forces causing the motion are not outside the objects, as in the classical Greek view, but are an intrinsic property of matter. Correspondingly, the Eastern image of the Divine isnot that of a ruler who directs the world from above, but of a principle that controls everything from within:

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Back in the 80th, we heard Qi Gong masters all over China. Today, we do hear that anymore. There must be a good reason for it.

 

[mograph]

In my opinion, one problem here lies in plucking the concept of qi out of the context, out of the idiom, out of the specific metaphor at hand. While Chinese culture privileges unity and integration in understanding concepts, western culture privileges division and segmentation as a means of understanding. Both are useful, but it helps to know when to apply one or the other.

In other words, in this context, a question for my friend would not be "what is qi?" but "what are you doing when you say you're using qi?" I have two possible answers for that, borrowing from engineering and from psychology:

1. distributing effort through as much of the body as possible (unified or diffuse effort), i.e. not focusing on using a specific body structure,
2. letting explicit training integrate, through practice, into implicit action. Athletes should be familiar with this,
3. describing the sensation of internal unity that accompanies a distributed effort.

If those are correct, then "I'm using my qi" would be understood by those who have previously encountered those three points through direct experience, practice and observation. They would nod sagely: "got it."

It's not dissimilar to English idioms, which simplify complex concepts, and have their richest meaning when accompanied by experience.

15 common English idioms related to innovation and technology

Learn how to use these common English idioms related to technology and innovation, helping you to speak more fluently!

blog.elsaspeak.com

I think that seeing the concept of qi as inseparable from its context (or the idiom at hand) might explain why it's so hard to pin down, hard to find a meaning independent of context, and why some Chinese masters refuse to discuss it in isolation.

 

[windwalker099]

In my opinion, one problem here lies in plucking the concept of qi out of the context, out of the idiom, out of the specific metaphor at hand. While Chinese culture privileges unity and integration in understanding concepts, western culture privileges division and segmentation as a means of understanding. Both are useful, but it helps to know when to apply one or the other.

Can't really follow any of what this means...

Have experienced and have some small ability similar to what has been shown...
My posting based on experience... maybe for others it's different...

In China, and of those that use this concept...it's not really about what it is,,,
more about what one can do with it....They don't ask if one knows what it is,
They asked if one can feel it..

got Qi

 

[Gyakuto]

Let me just redress this thread by stating there is absolutely no objective evidence for the existence of Ki/Chi/Qi. None.

 

[windwalker099]

Actually there are many studies on going.
Some might find interesting reading

Similarly, Tai Chi pays attention to form Qi and focuses on slowing down and softening the muscles.
Whether the "jin" in it refers to the fascia system recognized by the West is still undecided.

However, if we can better understand the structure of the body, it may help boxing.
Understanding of frame and boxing principles. This article roughly summarizes or excerpts some expert opinions.

 

[Gyakuto]

Actually there are many studies on going.
Some might find interesting reading

Care to share details?

 

[windwalker099]

Care to share details?

The link provided lists some of the ongoing studies and theories being explored.

How to train fascia?

After the publication of the previous article on fascia theory (" On Tai Chi and Fascia Theory "), many people had this question, but there was no good answer at the time. However, with the new progress in fascial research in recent years, fascial kinematics has also begun to develop.

Fascial kinematics mainly analyzes the patterns of movement and action control from the perspective of fascia. It has a more in-depth discussion of the function and role of fascia and develops the basic structure of fascial training.

If the fascial theory in the previous article can increase the understanding of body structure and boxing principles, then the more in-depth discussion of fascial function and the structure of fascial training in fascial kinematics may bring more What a different inspiration.

 

[Gyakuto]

The link provided lists some of the ongoing studies and theories being explored.

Oh, I’ll quickly learn Chinese, in that case.

 

[mograph]

I think it's important to clarify just what a person is talking about when they are talking about qi, force, energy, and so on, in this context.

 

[mograph]

Oh, I’ll quickly learn Chinese, in that case.

Well, browsers these days translate, to some extent.

 

[windwalker099]

Back in the 80th, we heard Qi Gong masters all over China. Today, we do hear that anymore. There must be a good reason for it.

Answer to a question

Note: history not meant to be political...

During Jimmy Carter’s presidency, the most dramatic moment in Sino-American relations occurred on December 15, 1978, when, following months of secret negotiations, the United States and the People’s Republic of China (PRC) announced that they would recognize one another and establish official diplomatic relations. As part of the agreement, the United States recognized the Government of the People’s Republic of China as the sole legal government of China, and declared it would withdraw diplomatic recognition from Taiwan (also known as the Republic of China [ROC]).

It was during this time that China allowed and promoted some of its culture in the US...
There are many on going studies in China and Taiwan, researching this aspect.
For those interested, searching the web can provide links to the studies.

 

[Gyakuto]

I think it's important to clarify just what a person is talking about when they are talking about qi, force, energy, and so on, in this context.

This is the problem with this kind of subject, there is no clear definition so can be argued about ad infinitum. I suspect this is why it is perpetuated rather than it having any real substance.

 

[Same Trick]

Back in the 80th, we heard Qi Gong masters all over China. Today, we do hear that anymore. There must be a good reason for it.

A lot of charlatans that basically stole money from people

 

[Gyakuto]

The definitive exposition on Qi/Chi/Ki. It’s old and a little political but bear with it.

 

[Appledog]

Let me just redress this thread by stating there is absolutely no objective evidence for the existence of Ki/Chi/Qi. None.

Another one of these? Well you seem to be a supporting member so I'll give it a shot I guess.

Qi is something that is part of an advanced training system found in some martial arts, notably Chinese internal arts. Some other arts are aware of chi but might not really use it, so they won't have a good set of definitions or information surrounding it. So your opinion is a bit suspect, because you are basically just saying you're uneducated on the matter. It's not an attack, it's true -- you're saying there's no evidence -- not that you investigated it (ex. got lineage in bagua or xingyi) and after going through the training you know it's fake. You are simply operating from a position of no information.

Chi is not something you can just pick up and use. It's part of a martial arts tradition. If you are not a part of that tradition, it is strange that you would want to start telling people what is inside it.

Given all that I would say, don't worry about Chi, even most tai chi people don't know what it is, sad to say.

 

[Same Trick]

For the love of God, Qi is the steam that rise from the cooker of rice.

Energy is what it is, energy manifests and being used in multitudes of ways depending on circumstances of application .

A big part of martial art practice kind of strives for one to be energy efficient, taijiquan maybe most so

One of the most direct hand on qigong exercises there is is sparring, martial arts solo exercises designed to replicate it.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I think we're all too caught up in definitions. Definitions depend on words and words are specific to one's culture and (mis)understanding of the concept. Is qi/chi/ki defined as a spiritual or physical thing? Perhaps a spiritual thing manifested thru physical means. Is it created or is it innate? Is it transmitted via breath, nerve meridians, willpower, biomechanics, blood flow, etc., or a combination of some or all these?

Is it even a real thing, or just a way to describe a general concept like "love," or "art?" We all kind of know what these things refer to, yet a specific definition that we can agree on is nebulous at best. "I can't say what art is, but I know it when I see it," goes the popular saying. "Good" and "evil" are very common words in our lexicon, but hard to define. Not only that, but as Nietzsche thought, "some things are beyond good and evil." Definitions of concepts can be tricky.

The main point is that definitions don't really matter in such things. Chi is not a tool that is ready made to be picked up and used. Chi is something that's experienced. Definition is not a requirement. In old karate, the techniques didn't even have names, yet they worked. "If someone grabs your wrist, you do this...," and the master would demonstrate. Definitions and nomenclature of the techniques weren't needed until karate was introduced into the schools and taught en masse.

Even if you can't define a chair or even spell it, it's still a chair. Chi is even more difficult to get a handle on. No matter how (or if) it's created, cultivated and transmitted, if you have the proper requirements (which can be cultivated such as breathing, biomechanics, mindset, health...) it will be manifested. You can't force it - it is there or not.

So just follow and practice the proper methods of your art for many years and the things we ascribe to chi will "be" and we'll be able to experience the effects. Having a definition for it, spending time contemplating it, or even thinking it's an actual thing makes no difference.

Note: I brought up several ideas here and much like quantum theory, there is much we don't know, including if the theory is correct (and it probably isn't in many respects) - yet it explains some things. So true or not, it's useful. My personal view on the topic is mostly expressed by what I put in italics.