Proud To Be An American

[Elayna]

This is my thought on what has happened in the years since the 9/11 attacks and how disgusted I am that it has turned into a political forum then a forum for freedom.
The 9/11 anniversary got me thinking alot. And I am ashamed in the way that we have not rememberd our fallen. And our freedom.
*****


I support the war.
I know OMG how could I right? Well, easily. I mean seriously people how could I not? I know, I know very cliché with 9/11 being just yesterday, but I figured, “hey now is as good a time as any” right?

For those of you who don’t support the war I ask you, why? Because it was a plot by our own government, to get into Iraq? So that Bush jr. could do what daddy dearest wasn’t able to? Well that sure is a conspiracy theory if I ever did hear one. I mean in all honesty people if you want to go that angel I say this. What if…
It was a conspiracy to make you believe it was a conspiracy in the first place? Maybe, the truth is that the Muslim terrorists really did fly those planes into the trade towers. Maybe, the truth is that our government didn’t have a year or more warning. Maybe certain people, saying, they had warning is only a ploy to get you to hate Bush and the U.S.?
OMG!!
Where does it all end? I mean you weren’t there. I wasn’t there. I’m not the government; you’re not the government. Or are you?? So how do we really know? The reports could be doctored. The news could be doctored. So what “facts” do we really have to go on?
Well for me, my eyes. I saw the images that day. I’ve seen what the terrorist Muslims have done in the past to others. To their own people. That’s the facts I go by.
I go by one statement they keep saying over and over, in their own media and in ours.
DEATH TO AMERICA.

People wake up. If that isn’t proof enough for you, nothing ever will be.
And just to let you all know a truth.
They aren’t saying death to bush. They aren’t saying death to gore. They aren’t saying death to anyone specific. They are saying death to you. To me. To an unborn American child. To any American on this continent, on any continent.
We didn’t provoke them. The terrorist and most of the people over in the Middle East have hated the United States for a very long time. And to want to kill every single “infidel” over it is not right. It is not nice. It is not kind. It is not “Godly”. And just because you think America is wrong, and just because you think we should just leave them alone wont stop them from killing you. The only thing that will stop them from killing you is 2 things. If you completely 100 percent give your soul, your freedom, everything to them. Or you kill them first.
Read their media. Their own news stations. I don’t speak their language, but translated I can do. And I know body language. That is a universal language.
I’m not saying to go and kill every Middle Easterner or Muslim. That would be wrong. Because not all of them agree with the ones who hurt others and who say those things about America. But I say, for those who wish death to America, I would rather bring the fight to them then let them bring it to my doorstep. To my son. To my family and to my nation.

We need to stand up proud together as Americans. United. Because if we don’t, the attacks on 9/11 will have succeeded. They didn’t crash those planes into those buildings just to get rid of the building. No, they did it to get rid of the idea. The dream. The hope. And they are succeeding.
They are turning us against each other. The only way to kill the U.S. is from within. So many people have said that. Well guess what, its happening.
So what are you going to do about it?
Don’t want to fight, then support the ones who do. Tell them good things. Write them good letters. Don’t write them letters of how you hate them. Shame on you if you do!!.
If you don’t want to do that then tell your government how you feel in a peaceful way according to the constitution. Telling our government how we feel has worked in the past very well, it will work again. But each time we have won a war against those who wish to take freedom is by standing united together, not apart.
If we wish to win this war we must stand together. If we let one faction get away with it, all the others will think they can to, and we will loose more innocent lives then there already have been.

Stand Up! Be Proud! Remember what our forefathers fought for. Remember what the people of Flight 93 fought for!

(Oh and if you don’t like the way America is and you cant do anything else but bash it, then I’m pretty sure China and Iran would love to have you, because I don’t want you as my neighbor.)

My Salute to all the men and women in the armed forces. YOU GO!!

An American for America…
Elayna



P.S. I 100% believe not every Muslim hates America

 

[Don Roley]

We didn’t provoke them. The terrorist and most of the people over in the Middle East have hated the United States for a very long time. And to want to kill every single “infidel” over it is not right. It is not nice. It is not kind. It is not “Godly”. And just because you think America is wrong, and just because you think we should just leave them alone wont stop them from killing you.

People should look at www.memri.org for some eye opening articles. The Middle East Media Research Institute has been translating a lot of articles from the region for years and it is scary to say the least.

Another thing people that care should do is go to the library and see if they can find an issue of Newsweek that came out shortly after the attacks with "Why They Hate Us" on the cover. I believe it was mainly written by Fareed Zakaria. It is a well written, very informative article that I really can't do justice to, but will try to give an synapsis of. You can probably find it on file in microfilm files. Anyone that cares should take the time.

In short, it says that there are a lot of goverments in the region that are really, really scummy. Much of the stuff they do would gag a maggot. They are not democracies, they control things with an iron fist and they do things that would make even the worst frat boys blush with shame.

When Isreal was born, they realized that there was a bit of discontent and some anti-semitism. They started using Isreal and the west in the same manner as Orwell's goverment in 1984 used Oceiana- as a means of blaming their woes over and a target for the discontent of the masses. This has been going on for decades and most of the people in that area has been reading the type of stuff you will find on Memri.org all their lives. They have been taught that Jews require the blood of a Muslim for a religious pastry in their school text books and that the US is controlled by a Jewish conspiracy on their TV.

Of course, using the Palestine people as a diversion does not mean that they have treated them very well themselves. The author says that as a Muslim he is shamed that Isreal treats them in a pretty scummy manner, but it the best treatment for them in the region! But as long as the papers are filled with tales of exterior threats, there is less call for them to be decent rulers.

And this is what we have to deal with. We will probably take decades to fix this problem since it has been in the making since before most of us were born. But it is not the muslims themselves that are most of the problem, it is the goverment that has used them like that.

Many times, we will be faced with situations where there are no good choices, only the least bad. Many of the areas from Pakistan to Eygpt are pulling back from open support for Islamic terrorists. American has proven that is will not be stopped by anyone else if they really want to take out the goverment. But after decades of this propaganda, the people waiting in the wings should there be democracy are mainly Islamic lunatics now.

The pressure on the goverments will be a delicate balancing act. Some people have urged us to basically attack the House of Saud. As deserving as they are, we would lose all influence over them outside of an invasion. So we deal with them with nudges instead of the cruise missles they deserve. And in some cases, nudges and such do not work. And that is when we have to use force.

More later.....

 

[heretic888]

This is my thought on what has happened in the years since the 9/11 attacks and how disgusted I am that it has turned into a political forum then a forum for freedom.
The 9/11 anniversary got me thinking alot. And I am ashamed in the way that we have not rememberd our fallen. And our freedom.
*****


I support the war.
I know OMG how could I right? Well, easily. I mean seriously people how could I not? I know, I know very cliché with 9/11 being just yesterday, but I figured, “hey now is as good a time as any” right?

For those of you who don’t support the war I ask you, why? Because it was a plot by our own government, to get into Iraq? So that Bush jr. could do what daddy dearest wasn’t able to? Well that sure is a conspiracy theory if I ever did hear one. I mean in all honesty people if you want to go that angel I say this. What if…
It was a conspiracy to make you believe it was a conspiracy in the first place? Maybe, the truth is that the Muslim terrorists really did fly those planes into the trade towers. Maybe, the truth is that our government didn’t have a year or more warning. Maybe certain people, saying, they had warning is only a ploy to get you to hate Bush and the U.S.?
OMG!!
Where does it all end? I mean you weren’t there. I wasn’t there. I’m not the government; you’re not the government. Or are you?? So how do we really know? The reports could be doctored. The news could be doctored. So what “facts” do we really have to go on?
Well for me, my eyes. I saw the images that day. I’ve seen what the terrorist Muslims have done in the past to others. To their own people. That’s the facts I go by.
I go by one statement they keep saying over and over, in their own media and in ours.
DEATH TO AMERICA.

People wake up. If that isn’t proof enough for you, nothing ever will be.
And just to let you all know a truth.
They aren’t saying death to bush. They aren’t saying death to gore. They aren’t saying death to anyone specific. They are saying death to you. To me. To an unborn American child. To any American on this continent, on any continent.
We didn’t provoke them. The terrorist and most of the people over in the Middle East have hated the United States for a very long time. And to want to kill every single “infidel” over it is not right. It is not nice. It is not kind. It is not “Godly”. And just because you think America is wrong, and just because you think we should just leave them alone wont stop them from killing you. The only thing that will stop them from killing you is 2 things. If you completely 100 percent give your soul, your freedom, everything to them. Or you kill them first.
Read their media. Their own news stations. I don’t speak their language, but translated I can do. And I know body language. That is a universal language.
I’m not saying to go and kill every Middle Easterner or Muslim. That would be wrong. Because not all of them agree with the ones who hurt others and who say those things about America. But I say, for those who wish death to America, I would rather bring the fight to them then let them bring it to my doorstep. To my son. To my family and to my nation.

We need to stand up proud together as Americans. United. Because if we don’t, the attacks on 9/11 will have succeeded. They didn’t crash those planes into those buildings just to get rid of the building. No, they did it to get rid of the idea. The dream. The hope. And they are succeeding.
They are turning us against each other. The only way to kill the U.S. is from within. So many people have said that. Well guess what, its happening.
So what are you going to do about it?
Don’t want to fight, then support the ones who do. Tell them good things. Write them good letters. Don’t write them letters of how you hate them. Shame on you if you do!!.
If you don’t want to do that then tell your government how you feel in a peaceful way according to the constitution. Telling our government how we feel has worked in the past very well, it will work again. But each time we have won a war against those who wish to take freedom is by standing united together, not apart.
If we wish to win this war we must stand together. If we let one faction get away with it, all the others will think they can to, and we will loose more innocent lives then there already have been.

Stand Up! Be Proud! Remember what our forefathers fought for. Remember what the people of Flight 93 fought for!

(Oh and if you don’t like the way America is and you cant do anything else but bash it, then I’m pretty sure China and Iran would love to have you, because I don’t want you as my neighbor.)

My Salute to all the men and women in the armed forces. YOU GO!!

An American for America…
Elayna



P.S. I 100% believe not every Muslim hates America

There is just one tiny little fact that supporters of the current war so conveniently overlook.

The War in Iraq has nothing to do with what happened on September 11, 2001.

That individuals lament about how 9/11 is used as a "political tool" but invoke it to support the current war speakes volumes, in my opinion.

Have a good one.

 

[heretic888]

People should look at www.memri.org for some eye opening articles. The Middle East Media Research Institute has been translating a lot of articles from the region for years and it is scary to say the least.

Another thing people that care should do is go to the library and see if they can find an issue of Newsweek that came out shortly after the attacks with "Why They Hate Us" on the cover. I believe it was mainly written by Fareed Zakaria. It is a well written, very informative article that I really can't do justice to, but will try to give an synapsis of. You can probably find it on file in microfilm files. Anyone that cares should take the time.

In short, it says that there are a lot of goverments in the region that are really, really scummy. Much of the stuff they do would gag a maggot. They are not democracies, they control things with an iron fist and they do things that would make even the worst frat boys blush with shame.

When Isreal was born, they realized that there was a bit of discontent and some anti-semitism. They started using Isreal and the west in the same manner as Orwell's goverment in 1984 used Oceiana- as a means of blaming their woes over and a target for the discontent of the masses. This has been going on for decades and most of the people in that area has been reading the type of stuff you will find on Memri.org all their lives. They have been taught that Jews require the blood of a Muslim for a religious pastry in their school text books and that the US is controlled by a Jewish conspiracy on their TV.

Of course, using the Palestine people as a diversion does not mean that they have treated them very well themselves. The author says that as a Muslim he is shamed that Isreal treats them in a pretty scummy manner, but it the best treatment for them in the region! But as long as the papers are filled with tales of exterior threats, there is less call for them to be decent rulers.

And this is what we have to deal with. We will probably take decades to fix this problem since it has been in the making since before most of us were born. But it is not the muslims themselves that are most of the problem, it is the goverment that has used them like that.

Many times, we will be faced with situations where there are no good choices, only the least bad. Many of the areas from Pakistan to Eygpt are pulling back from open support for Islamic terrorists. American has proven that is will not be stopped by anyone else if they really want to take out the goverment. But after decades of this propaganda, the people waiting in the wings should there be democracy are mainly Islamic lunatics now.

The pressure on the goverments will be a delicate balancing act. Some people have urged us to basically attack the House of Saud. As deserving as they are, we would lose all influence over them outside of an invasion. So we deal with them with nudges instead of the cruise missles they deserve. And in some cases, nudges and such do not work. And that is when we have to use force.

More later.....

Don,

Last year, I came across an excellent article authored by Fareed Zakaria in an issue of Newsweek magazine. I will have to apologize in advance for not being able to provide the specific issue number in the context of this discussion.

In the article, Mr. Zakaria provided some rather convincing statistics demonstrating using aggressive force against nations such as Iraq and Iran more often than not does more harm than good (I think the cases where it actually had a positive effect on the countries in question was less than 10% of the time). He argued that it was because the "modernization" and "democratization" of these nations requires empowering the common public and the middle classes of the nations. When you use military force to destroy their infrastructure or use economic sanctions to inhibit their commerce, the unintended effect is that this actually empowers the dictators, military leaders, and warlords of the nations in question. The common citizenry actually lose power when "force" is used against their nation.

He concluded by pointing out that while it feels justified to "do something" in nations where terrible things are happening, more often than not (i.e., over 90% of the time) we are actually doing more harm than good by doing so. The perfect example is post-Gulf War Iraq. Sanctions were imposed on the nation, which gave Saddam Hussein the opportunity to consolidate his power and establish even more control in his country.

Have a good one.

 

[Don Roley]

There is just one tiny little fact that supporters of the current war so conveniently overlook.

The War in Iraq has nothing to do with what happened on September 11, 2001.

Iraq did not arm Al-Quaeda for the attacks.

But 9-11 kind of showed the way that some countries shielded and used terrorists as proxies. They claim they are not attacking other countries or giving anything other than "spiritual" support for terrorist orginizations. And the Taliban expected us to not do anything unless we could prove that Osama Bin Laden was in fact guilty of what he did.

9-11 kind of showed us that it is a not a wise idea to play by those rules anymore and to not just sit back while goverments that hate America build ties with terrorists. To not let others attack us and then respond to the attacks.

And that was why the world is better off without Hussein.

 

[Don Roley]

In the article, Mr. Zakaria provided some rather convincing statistics demonstrating using aggressive force against nations such as Iraq and Iran more often than not does more harm than good (I think the cases where it actually had a positive effect on the countries in question was less than 10% of the time). He argued that it was because the "modernization" and "democratization" of these nations requires empowering the common public and the middle classes of the nations. When you use military force to destroy their infrastructure or use economic sanctions to inhibit their commerce, the unintended effect is that this actually empowers the dictators, military leaders, and warlords of the nations in question. The common citizenry actually lose power when "force" is used against their nation.

In the short term, I agree. But in the long term, I do not think that the scum bags we have to deal with will make any sort of move to clean up the messes they control unless they are sure that talk is not the only thing they might face.

 

[heretic888]

Iraq did not arm Al-Quaeda for the attacks.

But 9-11 kind of showed the way that some countries shielded and used terrorists as proxies. They claim they are not attacking other countries or giving anything other than "spiritual" support for terrorist orginizations. And the Taliban expected us to not do anything unless we could prove that Osama Bin Laden was in fact guilty of what he did.

9-11 kind of showed us that it is a not a wise idea to play by those rules anymore and to not just sit back while goverments that hate America build ties with terrorists. To not let others attack us and then respond to the attacks.

And that was why the world is better off without Hussein.

I will have to reiterate my point, it seems.

Iraq and Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11 and nothing to do with Al Queda.

It was only after our forces invaded, that the infrastructure of the country was utterly demolished, that terrorist groups actually moved in and set up camp in the country. Hussein didn't establish terrorist groups in Iraq. We did, albeit unintentionally.

This just goes back to the point I highlighted in my last post. Namely, that when you demolish the ability of the common citizen, the educated middle class, to thrive in a nation, you are empowering the warlords, dictators, religious zealots, and terrorists in that country (or other countries, in this case).

Arguing the world is better off Hussein in some defense against terrorism is disingenuous, in my opinion, in that Hussein had absolutely no ties to terrorism.

Have a good one.

 

[heretic888]

In the short term, I agree. But in the long term, I do not think that the scum bags we have to deal with will make any sort of move to clean up the messes they control unless they are sure that talk is not the only thing they might face.

Actually, Don, the facts show that just the inverse of what you have proposed is true.

The short term effect of military force and economic sanction is that individuals such as Hussein or organizations such as Hamass are weakened. The long term effect is that these actions practically cripple the power of the educated citizenry and middle classes in these nations, thus putting all social and economic power in the hands of the despots.

This is precisely what happened in Iraq in the years following the Gulf War (which would have been worsened if we actually occupied the region as we are doing now). And, it's pretty much what's happening now, too.

Laterz.

 

[Don Roley]

Arguing the world is better off Hussein in some defense against terrorism is disingenuous, in my opinion, in that Hussein had absolutely no ties to terrorism.

Oh? I am sure someone could look up the name, but there was a guy on a wanted list caught living under his protection when Iraq fell.

And then there were those guys who were his personal terrorist cells called the Feyadeen.

And there is always the future and the fact that he was moving more and more towards appeasing Ismlamists and forming ties with them. As well as his great interest in nasty things like Bio warfare, deep pockets and sanctions probably being raised by now due to his friends Russia and China. Who knows what the future would have brought? And are you willing to wait for the types of risk a man like Hussein could bring?

And, with all due respect, we are not yet able to see the long term effects. We are still in the short term when talking about the future of Iraq.

 

[heretic888]

Oh? I am sure someone could look up the name, but there was a guy on a wanted list caught living under his protection when Iraq fell.

And then there were those guys who were his personal terrorist cells called the Feyadeen.

And there is always the future and the fact that he was moving more and more towards appeasing Ismlamists and forming ties with them. As well as his great interest in nasty things like Bio warfare, deep pockets and sanctions probably being raised by now due to his friends Russia and China. Who knows what the future would have brought? And are you willing to wait for the types of risk a man like Hussein could bring?

I am relatively certain that the individual supposedly "under protection" in Iraq was corroborated to be in Europe at the time. I am unfamiliar with the Feyadeen.

Also, when I say "military force is not the answer" that is not the same thing as "do nothing". However, at this point in history, I would have to conclude that there is little else we can accomplish in Iraq by having a military presence there. We only seem to be making things worse.

And, with all due respect, we are not yet able to see the long term effects. We are still in the short term when talking about the future of Iraq.

I wasn't talking about the long term effects of Iraq per se.

What I was referring to were the patterns that have been observed in history when dealing with such nations time and time again. Mr. Zakaria cited the exact statistics in his article.

It is entirely possible that Iraq may be some quasi-magical wild card that goes against what dozens of countries just like it have done. But, I sincerely doubt it. Statistically speaking, there is less than a 10% chance that the war is going to end up making things better in the country.

Laterz.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

heretic, I will agree with you on a couple of points.

Force is not the answer to terrorism.

The answer is overwhelming force.

Many people cite economic reasons for "Islamic" terrorism, but the facts don't support that. The 19 neo-jihadists that crashed the planes five years ago were not poor goat farmers from the mountains of Afghanistan, but college educated men from middle class families.

I agree with you on an other point, Iraq was most likely the wrong target to go after. Iran, who supports the terrorists ideologically and funds them monetarily would be a much more appropriate target.

Just my two cents,

Jeff

 

[crushing]

Don,

Last year, I came across an excellent article authored by Fareed Zakaria in an issue of Newsweek magazine. I will have to apologize in advance for not being able to provide the specific issue number in the context of this discussion.

In the article, Mr. Zakaria provided some rather convincing statistics demonstrating using aggressive force against nations such as Iraq and Iran more often than not does more harm than good (I think the cases where it actually had a positive effect on the countries in question was less than 10% of the time). He argued that it was because the "modernization" and "democratization" of these nations requires empowering the common public and the middle classes of the nations. When you use military force to destroy their infrastructure or use economic sanctions to inhibit their commerce, the unintended effect is that this actually empowers the dictators, military leaders, and warlords of the nations in question. The common citizenry actually lose power when "force" is used against their nation.

He concluded by pointing out that while it feels justified to "do something" in nations where terrible things are happening, more often than not (i.e., over 90% of the time) we are actually doing more harm than good by doing so. The perfect example is post-Gulf War Iraq. Sanctions were imposed on the nation, which gave Saddam Hussein the opportunity to consolidate his power and establish even more control in his country.

Have a good one.

Heretic, I will do some searching for the article you mention because it sounds like an interesting read. There was an interview this morning on NPR that the person being interview (I don't recall his name, but he worked for Mr. Blair and has become controverial) pretty much agreed with your representation of Mr. Zakaria's article.

It does make sense as Operation Infinite Reach seems to have been one of the major motivating factors leading up to the 9/11 attacks. Unfortunately, we will never know for sure if the attacks would have happened anyway if the US wasn't so militarily active in the middle East and Africa throughout the 90s.

Speaking of Hussein's power and control. I was curious as to why it isn't called sectarian violence when one sect has all the power and kills thousands, if not millions, and it's only called sectarian violence when the other sects reply with their own violence?

 

[heretic888]

heretic, I will agree with you on a couple of points.

Force is not the answer to terrorism.

The answer is overwhelming force.

I think we may be confusing concepts here.

My reply that "force is not the answer" was not in regards to terrorism, but in regards to reforming non-democratic nations throughout the world. I firmly believe you cannot "force" democracy on a people, due to its very nature.

However, terrorists are international criminals, not sovereign nations. They should be apprehended and tried for their crimes, then sentenced accordingly. This requires the use of force, obviously, but not necessarily the unilateral force that many Bush supporters opine.

Many people cite economic reasons for "Islamic" terrorism, but the facts don't support that. The 19 neo-jihadists that crashed the planes five years ago were not poor goat farmers from the mountains of Afghanistan, but college educated men from middle class families.

I think the reasons behind 9/11 are very complex, involving a lot of factors and variables.

I agree with you on an other point, Iraq was most likely the wrong target to go after. Iran, who supports the terrorists ideologically and funds them monetarily would be a much more appropriate target.

Exactly.

Laterz.

 

[Monadnock]

September 11 marked the beginning of Jihad. We responded by overthrowing the Taliban. Our next move, knowing that al-Quaeda is a network spanning multiple boarders, was to remove anyone that would support them, present or future. Saddam fit that threat.

As a side effect, this war has drawn in combatants from neighboring countries to Iraq, which is where I personally would rather fight them, instead of my back yard. Of course, the war is not over.

It would not surprise me, nor disappoint me, if Iran and Syria were next.

Oh-- and it was never about oil.

Peace! :uhyeah:

 

[heretic888]

September 11 marked the beginning of Jihad. We responded by overthrowing the Taliban. Our next move, knowing that al-Quaeda is a network spanning multiple boarders, was to remove anyone that would support them, present or future. Saddam fit that threat.

Hussein only fits the above categorization if one is dealing in fabricated "facts" and neo-conservative lies.

As a side effect, this war has drawn in combatants from neighboring countries to Iraq, which is where I personally would rather fight them, instead of my back yard. Of course, the war is not over.

Personally, I'd never agreed with the prospect that the role of our men and women in uniform is to collectively act as human shields. But, hey, if you think their lives are disposable....

I should also bring up the additional point that the invasion of Iraq has actually multiplied the number of Al Queda agents and sympathizers in the world. Al Queda had no base of operations in Iraq prior to our military presence, but they most assuredly do now.

Whatever we're doing there right now, it is not stopping terrorism.

It would not surprise me, nor disappoint me, if Iran and Syria were next.

That the prospect of additional war does not "disappoint" one speakes volumes, in my opinion.

Oh-- and it was never about oil.

The War in Iraq is about nothing short of neo-conservative imperialism.

All of the chief architects of the war were contributing members of the PNAC, an organization which has repeatedly expressed a desire to "militarily reform" Islam and secure America's economic and political interests (including oil) in the Middle East.

Under the PNAC's leadership, our nation is evolving (or is that de-evolving?) into what the British Empire was during the early 20th century. With all due respect, this should scare the living hell out of any rational American citizen.

Laterz.

 

[michaeledward]

knowing that al-Quaeda is a network spanning multiple boarders, was to remove anyone that would support them, present or future. Saddam fit that threat.

This statement is utterly and completely and demonstrably false.

Saddam Hussein, as a secular leader of a secular nation did not support al-Qaeda in the past, in his present, or in the future.

The ongoing ignorance on this issue is disheartening.

Please see the Senate Report issued last week. Please see the 911 Report. Please see any news report from the last seven years.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

In fact, Hussein and AQ were often at odds.

Jeff

 

[Monadnock]

OK, I'll play.

Hussein only fits the above categorization if one is dealing in fabricated "facts" and neo-conservative lies.

Au-contraire, mon frere. But I think, as was pointed out earlier, there were al-Quaeda people in Iraq before we went in. By my, and our President's definition, you are either with us, or against us. Nations that harbor terrorists are against us.

Personally, I'd never agreed with the prospect that the role of our men and women in uniform is to collectively act as human shields. But, hey, if you think their lives are disposable....

I'll waive my right to respond to further dillution of my original post. But dream on if you must.

I should also bring up the additional point that the invasion of Iraq has actually multiplied the number of Al Queda agents and sympathizers in the world. Al Queda had no base of operations in Iraq prior to our military presence, but they most assuredly do now.

Funny, I would have included the multiple calls for holy war as a primary factor. Maybe you missed that one. But as for my prior comment, I'd rather have their base in Iraq, than my back yard. You of course have the right to your own opinion.

Whatever we're doing there right now, it is not stopping terrorism.

How do you eat an elephant?

That the prospect of additional war does not "disappoint" one speakes volumes, in my opinion.

In a narrow view, I suppose it might.

The War in Iraq is about nothing short of neo-conservative imperialism.

All of the chief architects of the war were contributing members of the PNAC, an organization which has repeatedly expressed a desire to "militarily reform" Islam and secure America's economic and political interests (including oil) in the Middle East.

Under the PNAC's leadership, our nation is evolving (or is that de-evolving?) into what the British Empire was during the early 20th century. With all due respect, this should scare the living hell out of any rational American citizen.

Laterz.

And the rest, as they say, is........irrelevent. Circumstantial? Out on a limb?? Conspiracy? Well, I like good drama too, so can't fault ya there.

 

[Monadnock]

In fact, Hussein and AQ were often at odds.

Jeff

My wife and I are often at odds....

 

[SFC JeffJ]

My wife and I are often at odds....

But is your wife calling your children to violently overthrow you?