Promotion through death?

[tigerstorm]

Just was curious of peoples opinions on the subject of students being promtoed in rank through the death of there Instructor? In the case of an Instructor who has gone on to make his own system, is it accepted that his chosen student recieve rank, after the Masters passing? In the Masters eyes someone needs to fill in the gap left in his death if you will, even though the student can never replace the master, is rank at the Masters wish acceptable?

 

[Turner]

It depends. I lived for a short while in a little town in the midwest and was looking for a martial arts instructor so that I could continue my training. Unfortunately since all that was in this area was corn and dirt, there weren't too many qualified teachers and not too many interested students to attract the teachers. There was one Karate guy who travelled around and taught in three of the towns and that was it. I went and watched a few of his classes and I was dismayed at the quality of his Black Belts and the lack of enthusiasm shown in the class... In short, I wasn't impressed at all. After the class he came up and gave me the speil and as we got to talking he informed me that he was getting ready to be promoted from 3rd Dan to 7th Dan due to a death in his organization and the need to fill in gaps. It is my opinion that this was just too big of a promotion, especially at the quality of the instruction.

In many arts after you reach a certain level, promotions are based on time in grade and contributions to the art. If there is no required learning after, say, 4th Dan and the system was in need of higher Dans... the 4th Dan has all the information he needs and it would probably be best to promote him to a higher level to fill in the gaps. Gaps in a system are not a good thing. It makes it harder for deserving people to get promoted because those that have the authority are few and far between or even non-existant. In order to ensure the propogation of your art, you have to make sure that the gaps are filled with qualified individuals who may not have met the time requirements or service to the art requirements... those will come when they are placed in the position of greater authority.

So to restate my opinion:

Promoting to fill in the gaps is appropriate if and only if
The individual has the skill of that position but is not that rank because of a lack of time in grade or service to the art.

Gaps are important to fill because it helps keep the art alive, but if care isn't taken you can kill the art faster by putting unqualified individuals into place which will cause the members of the organization to lose respect for the governing body and potential students will be lost because of that lack of respect and the lack of respect for the rank.

 

[Chiduce]

This is a very good issue for students and instructors to ponder, within any martial system. My sifu's teacher is getting elderly in years and he has not teached personally in several years. To the best of my knowledge of this matter; the teacher selected my sifu as his successor as head of the school. This may not mean he will get the highest rank or rank of his teacher when the teacher passes. Yet, my sifu will have the title of dojang director of the local wushu school. It is clear that the teacher has many other students of ranking which could assume the vacant position of headmaster of the clan. Thus, my sifu will assume the position of headmaster of the local school/ (original dojang of his teacher), and the next highest ranking black belt to his teacher will assume the position of headmaster of the clan of students world wide! Now, in the case of say my sifu founding his own style or system; he will just assume the positions of headmaster of the school and headmaster of his own style. With this in mind, he has several choices for ranking! He can self proclaim the highest ranking within his style: He can ask the teacher to rank him for his service to the arts and martial community in the teacher's system and his new style; or he can get his new style certified by a governing body and accept the ranking which this body confers upon him. Therefore, the teacher can confer upon him his own high rank upon retirement or in the event of death and confer up to his own rank in the sifu's new style! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[Blindside]

Hi Chiduce,

This is an aside from the thrust of the conversation but....

How do you become the "dojang director" of a wushu school?

You are mixing languages or terms or something. "Dojang" is a korean term, kwoon would be the closest Chinese term that I know of. Just curious,

Lamont

 

[tshadowchaser]

The head of a system should be able to designate his successor. If he has not named one I would think that the highest ranking student would take the posistion. Now if the highest ranking student is only a 1st degree black belt then my opion is different. It really depends on the knowledge of the student, time in the arts,etc.
Not being of a system where this will happen I am not in a good posistion to 2nd guess another system.
Shadow

 

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by Blindside

Hi Chiduce,

This is an aside from the thrust of the conversation but....

How do you become the "dojang director" of a wushu school?

You are mixing languages or terms or something. "Dojang" is a korean term, kwoon would be the closest Chinese term that I know of. Just curious,

Lamont

I could have said dojo. I just used the term dojang. Actually, the school did infact teach korean tae kwon do, goju ryu, and 5 animal kung fu. So, kwoon, dojo or/and dojang would have been appropriate! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[Turner]

Just out of curiosity, what would the Chinese term for Dojo/Dojang? I've never studied a Chinese art so I have no idea. However the word kwoon immediately comes to mind.

 

[tigerstorm]

Turner if my memory serves me, and it sometimes doesnt, but I believe that it is Kwoon
Tigerstorm

 

[Goldendragon7]

:asian: