Pressure testing self-defence techniques

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Then Phil, why don't you simply post your resume. Not a link to where I can buy your book or read it elsewhere, or such, but tell us what makes you neither limited nor a novice? If I am mistaken, and you have such true qualifications, then I will publically apologize. You lack an instructor level certification (ie no black belt) in any legitimate system, yet I recall you are now the co-founder? of your own system? Most of the information I have on your background is from your own sites, a few of your detractors sites, and the listing at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Elmore
However, I take all sources with a grain of salt. I am asking you, here, now, to please list your 15 year martial arts background so that we can settle the question of just how limited or not it is.

You will either do so, and shut me up, or post a link, or go off on how you don't need to do so, or, call the cops on me. Regardless, we will have our answer, since if you evade the question, you will have proven my point.

 

[Phil Elmore]

With all due respect, Edmund, you're not making much sense to me. I've just gotten done telling you that I have no credentials that would impress you -- how would my detailing those unimpressive credentials make any difference one way or another? Quite the contrary, I have stated so publicly. My resume would likewise not impress you, unless you wish to hire a writer.

I have said repeatedly that my understanding of self-defense is borne out in the body of my work. My ideas stand on their merits. I am proud of them and I stand by that. If you wish to know my martial history, you can read it in Shorthand Empty Hand, but it won't impress you. It's not meant to impress you. I have never said, "Believe me and agree with me because I am Phil Elmore!" I have instead said, "Agree with me because what I am saying makes logical sense."

A lot of people never get over their own ego in the martial arts. They're too busy trying to tell the world how tough they are, or how much better they are compared to someone else, ever to truly produce something of value. That's not how I approach the field and it never will be. I am ordinary guy writing for other ordinary people, using the benefit of years spent studying the topic. I've never pursued rank for its own sake; it's never interested me. It never will. While critics continue to complain, I continue to train, to write, and to contribute productively and constructively. That won't change. We will never agree, apparently, nor do I care if we do. I have argued simply because I respect the truth and will continue to stand up for it.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

As expected, he evades. He points to his "15 years experience" but cannot produce them, nor back them up. I need say no more.

Now I will exit this pointless debate, and go read some Star Trek since I want to know what tommorow will bring.

 

[Phil Elmore]

Stating the truth is not an evasion. Providing sources is not an evasion. Stating flatly that you will not be impressed by that which you've said will not impress you is not an evasion. When you don't get the answer you want, this is not the same as not getting an answer.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Phil,
You evaded. I asked for a listing, not a link. You gave a link, and explained away the matter.

Either your "15 years experience" counts or it doesn't.
You have no black belt.
You have been an art gypsy for most of your career.
That tells me that regardless of personal fall outs, and current applause, that you have not gotten to the deeper levels of any 1 art, but instead only have the novice knowledge. Book learning is not the same as real experience, and I don't care how big your vocabulary is, or how many pages you write, it's simply not the same.

You did not answer, you evaded and gave a non-answer. I would have been more impressed if you had said "I've tried many, the longest was 3 years of X, and left that as my focus diverged from that of the school". Of course, I didn't ask to be impressed. I asked for facts.

 

[Phil Elmore]

No, I did not evade. I answered your questions in an entirely reasonable manner. Why did you say you were done with the conversation if you were going to keep arguing about it?

 

[Andrew Green]

What was the answer again?

 

[Phil Elmore]

I have never claimed to have any credentials anyone would find impressive. I have studied various traditional and non-traditional martial arts for the last fifteen years, including but not limited to Chidokwan Karate (my first), Wing Chun Kung Fu (my longest, to date), Liu Seong Kung Fu (my current), and Jeet Kune Do (my most recent and also current). A detailed martial biography can be found in my book, Shorthand Empty Hand. My work bears out my understanding of the martial arts as gained through the study of these and other martial arts.

It's pretty simple, really. It's amazing how much some people's hostility can cloud their ability to accept the truth.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Um, buy his book, visit his site, read his whatever. Not sure if he had an answer. What is the highest belt you reached? "Belts are not important". Phil has 15 years as a hobbiest, and he writes alot. This makes him qualified to make statements on martial arts. Whatever. Why don't you post the detailed list then, or are sales of your book hurting so that this is the only way you have to drum up business?

So, now that Phils true nakedness has been exposed, can we go back to discussing pressure testing?

 

[Phil Elmore]

You have received perfectly reasonable answers that are perfectly consistent with everything I have stated publicly. The fact that you do not like the answers does not mean that you did not get them. I am disappointed by your refusal to discuss this in a civil, respectful fashion.

 

[Bigshadow]

Guys, can we stop arguing credentials? This thread is way off topic. I unsubscribed this thread earlier because it is running off into the outer rim of the galaxy.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

No Phil, you didn't answer them. You evaded. To continue this is pointless. I will leave you in peace now. Good Writing!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Folks.

Enough.

Go back the the thread topic, or let the thread die. Take your personal issues off the board.

No further debate will be tolerated.

 

[Rook]

Pressure Testing my skills makes as much sence to me, as crash testing my car to see if the airbag really works. It's expensive, it's painful, and it's outright dangerous. At some point, one needs to simply trust that things work, and will work when you need them, provided you keep the system running correctly. In a martial application, this means training, practicing, and drilling, maybe even competing.

I, for one, would never buy a car model that has never been crash tested. Realizing that crash tests are imperfect simulations of the road, I still look at the Insurance Institute's crash safety rating when searching for a car.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I think what the vacationing Mr. Adder meant was, he doesn't have to crash his car to test that. Someone else already did the testing and he can rely on their results. Least thats what I do.

But, I won't be loaning him my car anytime soon.

 

[Don Roley]

I, for one, would never buy a car model that has never been crash tested. Realizing that crash tests are imperfect simulations of the road, I still look at the Insurance Institute's crash safety rating when searching for a car.

But if all you looked at was the crash safety rating, it would not be a good examination.

And there are somethings that just can't be tested outside the real thing. Not to mention that some things work a lot off of the fact of something like that they are surprises- which make a test where the other knows what is coming or at least suspects it a bit of a problem.

And there are ways of testing things under pressure without a UFC type of competition. Web search the words Peyton Quinn and see how that is an even more realistic simulation than the UFC. But I have trained very briefly under him and he is the first to admit there are things his armored assailent scenario training just can't do.